For those suffering on the east coast...

hot_rod

I suppose that green wood is burning at 20-30% efficiency. So lots if smoke and particulate matter from such incomplete combustion

DanHolohan

Do we need to call people names? Can’t we just talk nicely. 

DanHolohan

Please?

ScottSecor

@DanHolohan I follow your trees with regard to bring carbon neutral.   Makes sense to me.

I wonder if burning green trees makes them no longer carbon neutral?  I'm exaggerating,  but it almost seems like the recent NYC area smoke from Canada put down more carbon than all of the gas stoves, and all of the carbon burning heating systems produce in a year.  Admittedly,  I have no proof of this.  

ChrisJ

hot_rod said:

I suppose that green wood is burning at 20-30% efficiency. So lots if smoke and particulate matter from such incomplete combustion

Since we've gone so far off track anyway...

If a person rides a motorcycle does it release the same amount of CO2 as a person riding a bicycle the same distance?

Both operate at roughly 20% no?

JakeCK

ChrisJ said:

hot_rod said:

I suppose that green wood is burning at 20-30% efficiency. So lots if smoke and particulate matter from such incomplete combustion

Since we've gone so far off track anyway...

If a person rides a motorcycle does it release the same amount of CO2 as a person riding a bicycle the same distance?

Both operate at roughly 20% no?

Mass.

The bicyclist weighs at most 250 or so lbs. That motorcycle weighs anywhere from 400 to 800 just by it's self.

More mass, more fuel, more carbon burned. 

JakeCK

Now as far as trees are concerned, I wonder what the carbon budget does with managed fast growth forests that are harvested for the lumber. The wood isn't burned or buried, nor should it rot. It goes into a structure where it could stay for hundreds of years if we only built structures to last like we used to. 

JakeCK

And yes no name calling please, this thread was supposed to be nothing but a tip for those suffering with poor air quality. 

DanHolohan

@ScottSecor, as I said, it’s a timing problem. Has been with us since time began. The carbon just moves with vegetation. No gain or loss.  The book I recommend is a great read. The author has a fascinating background. It’s a gorgeous read. 

CLamb

Here is an article from the Toronto Globe from 2021 about mismanagement causing bigger forest fires. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/editorials/article-canadas-massive-wildfires-are-the-result-of-decades-of-bad-decisions/

ScottSecor

@DanHolohan I guess I have some reading to do.  Thank you for the suggestion.   

DanHolohan

I’ve read it in print several years ago and am now listening to it read by the author on Audible. It’s a life-changing book. I wish everyone would experience it. 

Mad Dog_2

Braiding Sweetgrass?  I'll git me a copy...add it to the pile to read...Mad Dog 🐕 

DanHolohan

I think you’ll like it, Matt. Thanks. 

ratio

DanHolohan said:

…A good book to read is Braiding Sweetgrass by Robin Wall Kimmel. 

Thanks for the suggestion, @DanHolohan.

Doin' my part by sequestering carbon on my bookshelf.

DanHolohan

😂 Thanks. 

WMno57

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Wall_Kimmerer
"Kimmerer is a proponent of the Traditional Ecological Knowledge (TEK) approach, which Kimmerer describes as a "way of knowing." TEK is a deeply empirical scientific approach and is based on long-term observation. However, it also involves cultural and spiritual considerations, which have often been marginalized by the greater scientific community."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_ecological_knowledge
Were Native American's living in harmony with nature or did they permanently alter their new eco-system?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megafauna#Effect_on_methane_emissions
"Another study examined the change in the methane concentration in the atmosphere at the end of the Pleistocene epoch after the extinction of megafauna in the Americas. After early humans migrated to the Americas about 13,000 BP, their hunting and other associated ecological impacts led to the extinction of many megafaunal species there. Calculations suggest that this extinction decreased methane production by about 9.6 million tons per year. This suggests that the absence of megafaunal methane emissions may have contributed to the abrupt climatic cooling at the onset of the Younger Dryas. The decrease in atmospheric methane that occurred at that time, as recorded in ice cores, was 2-4 times more rapid than any other decrease in the last half million years, suggesting that an unusual mechanism was at work."

DanHolohan

Read it and decide for yourself. It’s a gorgeous book. 

JohnNY

DanHolohan said:

It’s a gorgeous book. 

Off topic but I'm captivated by a book I'm reading called Ten Drugs by Thomas Hager. It discusses the relatively new world of actual scientifically rendered medicines and the handful that changed humanity. It's from 2019 so it misses all the covid stuff but it's fascinating.

JakeCK

It's back!  And it's moving east again. I told ya'll this wasn't done. Yesterday Cleveland recorded it's worst air quality ever(I'm assuming record keeping doesn't go back to the hayday of the industrial revolution), and it smelled like a mix of a bonfire with bad wood and a burn barrel. Today is slightly better. Smell isn't as bad and I can see to the end of the street. Still hazy. 

That ain't fog:

mattmia2

Its been in Ann Arbor for about 3 days now. Not sure if the smell is the smoke or the party store with a smoker food truck in the the parking lot at the end of the block.

JakeCK

mattmia2 said:

Its been in Ann Arbor for about 3 days now. Not sure if the smell is the smoke or the party store with a smoker food truck in the the parking lot at the end of the block.

If it smells like a dumpster fire it's probably the smoke. Lol

ChrisJ

Ok @JakeCK
You were right.

Jamie Hall

Someone up there mentioned why not water bombing to put the fires out? Two reasons. First, the area which is burning is impressively large -- not all in one placee, but the total acreage. I doubt that there is even one percent of the total water bombing aircraft in the world which might be needed. Second, and perhaps even more important, water bombing is not used to put fires out, but to slow their advance so that the boots on the ground can eventually stop them.

It is slowly -- very slowly -- becoming recognized that fire is a natural part of the forest ecosystem, even where men haven't deliberately used it for control and prevention -- which the native americans had been doing for several thousand years before Smokey the Bear turned up. Fire removes the dry brush and grass and slash and dead trees which are what make modern fires burn so hot and so fast.

FStephenMasek

One of the things you might enjoy is The Pageant of the Masters, in Laguna Beach. https://www.foapom.com/pageant-announces-90th-anniversary-2023-theme/

psb75

Some "politician" suggested: "raking up the forest floor" would help with forest fires. Then, during my entire youth there was Smokey the Bear pointing his finger at me and saying, "Only YOU can prevent forest fires!" Remember that? How's that working out?

ChrisJ

psb75 said:

Some "politician" suggested: "raking up the forest floor" would help with forest fires. Then, during my entire youth there was Smokey the Bear pointing his finger at me and saying, "Only YOU can prevent forest fires!" Remember that? How's that working out?

So.
Politicians aren't the smartest and people are irresponsible?

psb75

What you asked:
"So.
Politicians aren't the smartest and people are irresponsible?

Here, I'm suggesting: its not working out very well.

WMno57

This article presents a theory that the rest of the summer will alternate between hot and smoky for the midwest and east.
"Smoke or heat. “Pick your poison,” said prediction center forecast operations chief Greg Carbin. “The conditions are not going to be very favorable.”"
https://www.newsnationnow.com/weather/why-youd-better-get-used-to-a-hot-smoky-summer/
Good map here to find your local air quality. Also shows the location of the fires.
https://fire.airnow.gov/

ChrisJ

Dave Carpentier

Its pretty impressive how far the smoke will travel. I watched one fairly bad blob travel south from the main fires down into NY state a bit, then turn northwest back into Ontario, then do a reverse-S thru Ontario and up just north of Lake Superior, then turn south and go down into Wisconsin.
You'd think it would dissipate or settle out more instead of being suspended for that long.