Update boiler or stay the course?

CTH3

I have a Weill-McLain CGi that is 23 years old with a TriangleTube "super store". I am thinking of updating to a high efficiency boiler with or without indirect DHW. Attached are some pics of my set up. My current system is functioning fine and probly will for the next 50 years.

ChrisJ

Is any of it broke, or showing signs of failure?

If not, leave it alone.

leonz

Keep current inefficient boiler and indirect DHW

Speaking as a homeowner;

If it is not leaking I would not replace it. At most it needs a good cleaning and burner tune up and perhaps a can of Fernox in the boiler water.

Adding insulation if possible and adding water storage in the basement if there is room will save you energy as a boiler hot water storage tank like the 425 gallon New Horizons rectangular fully insulated tank on the return side would provide you with more warm feed water for the boiler sump and provide more thermal mass.

The return header piping would need to be changed to feed the cooler return water from the heating loops into the New Horizons fully insulated tank and back to the boiler sump line.

JUGHNE

Keep current inefficient boiler and indirect DHW

How inefficient in considered inefficient?

What type of emitters do you have?

If you ran the boiler temp at the lowest possible output and it still heated the house, what would the return water temp be?

High efficiency is dictated by the return water temp, if too high for condensing then that perhaps extra 10 % may not be had.

CTH3

I don't have the book right by me but I believe it is approx 85%. Emitters? Baseboard if that is where the heat is emitted to the room.

Jamie Hall

Look at it this way. IF you have enough baseboard to have the return temperature always below about 140, then the most additional efficiency you could attain is 10%. So you fuel bill might decrease by that 10&. Otherwise, you won't be getting the additional efficiency the label proudly states, and you won't be saving much if anything. So how many years will it take, saving 10% on your fuel bill, to pay off a new boiler? Quite a few...

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Mad Dog_2

Keep current inefficient boiler and indirect DHW

Unless you have that much extra disposable income, leave it alone.  Mad Dog 🐕 

Steamhead

Keep current inefficient boiler and indirect DHW

That boiler should last a long time.

Hot_water_fan

Keep current inefficient boiler and indirect DHW

I'd keep until failure. How much fuel do you use per year?

WMno57

Keep current inefficient boiler and indirect DHW

I might consider getting a dedicated water heater for DHW. Then in January when the boiler dies, you can still take a hot shower. In the summer you can shut the boiler down for several months for maintenance, waiting for parts, etc.

hot_rod

A lot depends on the water water, how often it cycles. Any non barrier tubing in the system?
Does it make any noise when it heats up?

random12345

@CTH3 What did you use for the pipe insulation? Armacell or the cheap stuff at big box store? Nice job with it by the way. Looking to do the same thing myself. Looks like 1/2" thick. I'm going to try for 1" if it will fit. Was it too difficult to miter the fittings? I've also heard insulating the basement has decent ROI. Haven't done it myself, but it's something I'm considering.

mattmia2

Keep current inefficient boiler and indirect DHW

The discharge pipes from the relief valves need to go all the way to the floor so they don't spray anyone in the area with hot water if they discharge. It looks like the element of the t&p valve for the indirect isn't in a place where the probe reaches inside the tank but it is hard to tell from this picture.

CTH3

hot_rod said:

A lot depends on the water water, how often it cycles. Any non barrier tubing in the system?
Does it make any noise when it heats up?

Unfortunately there is some noise. I have the heat turned off now but the indirect DHW continues. When heating the water there is a non-rhythmic, intermittent rattle type noise. It is not the same noise of the baseboard heating when the pipes are making noise. I put my ear near the taco circulator but can not hear any noise there.

CTH3

Hot_water_fan said:

I'd keep until failure. How much fuel do you use per year?

About 900 gallons of LP for heat, hot water and cooking. Also have a DHW circulator set for morning and evening. We have an RSF fire box/fireplace that we burn all winter which keeps our LR in the 70s We have 13+ acres and I cut my own firewood.

CTH3

mattmia2 said:

The discharge pipes from the relief valves need to go all the way to the floor so they don't spray anyone in the area with hot water if they discharge. It looks like the element of the t&p valve for the indirect isn't in a place where the probe reaches inside the tank but it is hard to tell from this picture.

Aware on the discharge pipe. I just haven’t gotten around to fixing that…….because I had to put a second PRV in due to the original now sticking up higher after installing the bypass. The second one is installed in an auxiliary access and it has an 8 inch probe. It is kind of obscured.

CTH3

random12345 said:

@CTH3 What did you use for the pipe insulation? Armacell or the cheap stuff at big box store? Nice job with it by the way. Looking to do the same thing myself. Looks like 1/2" thick. I'm going to try for 1" if it will fit. Was it too difficult to miter the fittings? I've also heard insulating the basement has decent ROI. Haven't done it myself, but it's something I'm considering.

I went with the cheap stuff. Unfortunately when we built the house in 1999/2000 I did not wrap all hot water piping. I only did visible pipes in basement. The rest are in insulated walls. I will look up Armacell.

hot_rod

CTH3 said:

hot_rod said:

A lot depends on the water water, how often it cycles. Any non barrier tubing in the system?
Does it make any noise when it heats up?

Unfortunately there is some noise. I have the heat turned off now but the indirect DHW continues. When heating the water there is a non-rhythmic, intermittent rattle type noise. It is not the same noise of the baseboard heating when the pipes are making noise. I put my ear near the taco circulator but can not hear any noise there.

A rumbling, piping, percolation sound could indicate sediment or scale in the boiler. No harm in running a cleaner in the system and see what flushes out. Efficiency goes up with clean heat exchange surfaces

It’s really hard to predict life expectancy

CTH3

CTH3 said:

hot_rod said:

A lot depends on the water water, how often it cycles. Any non barrier tubing in the system?
Does it make any noise when it heats up?

Re: barrier or no barrier tubing…my system is totally copper.

JakeCK

Keep current inefficient boiler and indirect DHW

I voted leave it, but I didn't know you were using LP. Maybe get a hybrid hpwh could maybe pipe it in series with your superstore if possible. Or just use both and switch over between seasons. Just a couple of valves. That would allow you to shut it down entirely during the summer. 

HVACNUT

Why are 2 zones valved off?

JakeCK

Keep current inefficient boiler and indirect DHW

HVACNUT said:

Why are 2 zones valved off?

I noticed that too, my guess is so heat from the system doesn't migrate up to the emitters in the house during the off season?

CTH3

JakeCK said:

HVACNUT said:

Why are 2 zones valved off?

I noticed that too, my guess is so heat from the system doesn't migrate up to the emitters in the house during the off season?

When heating season is over I turn all the gates off except DHW. The one is on because it got a little chilly earlier this week and it was only 68 in the house when I got up.

CTH3

p

JakeCK

Keep current inefficient boiler and indirect DHW

CTH3 said:

p

Only 68? 🙃 Lol when I was younger and family free I used to keep the house at 66-68 not only to save money but because I found it comfortable. Once the heating season is over I don't even consider turning that beast back on unless it drops below 60.

CTH3

JakeCK said:

CTH3 said:

p

Only 68? 🙃 Lol when I was younger and family free I used to keep the house at 66-68 not only to save money but because I found it comfortable. Once the heating season is over I don't even consider turning that beast back on unless it drops below 60.

That’s more like our bedroom.  When we were in the upstairs BR the heat was on only when we were up there for an extended purpose.  So 64-62 at night was great with an electric blanket.
Now we are older and downstairs. I’ll post a pic after this.  These are the Ty inns that look in our window

CTH3

 

JakeCK

Keep current inefficient boiler and indirect DHW

He's just looking for picnic baskets and pies.

Mad Dog_2

Keep current inefficient boiler and indirect DHW

Heyyyy Boo Boo...let's find us some pick-a-nick baskets!!!!  I'm smarta than the avaaaridge  bear! 🐻 .Mad Dog 🐕 

CTH3

And with that we can close this poll out. Thank you all for your advice. I will keep the current system, extend the relief pipe to nearer the floor and have the system flushed and cleaned.