Advice is my water boiler enough to heat whole house, please.

sashas

Hi,

The story is that I have two boilers. One is water and the second one is steam. I am trying to optimize my bills and I think I should remove the steam boiler and use the water boiler to heat my house (NYC, private home with basement, 1FL and 2FL)

I currently have a water heater installed and there are radiators in the basement and a radiant floor for floor #1. I would like to add a few radiators to the 1st floor (the heated floor doesn't do well) and add 6 radiators to the 2nd floor.

I currently have a Utica UH15B096FE boiler:



I'm not good at calculations but based on the architectural survey each floor has the same measurements, if I understood correctly: 45.7x19.6 which makes it ~940 sq ft per floor.


3 Floors (Basement, 1FL, 2FL) in sum become 2820 sq ft.

- Do I need to change the existing Utica boiler to another one or is this one can support the whole house?
- How can I calculate it or find it out?



Thank you in advance.

Jamie Hall

Really need more information. First off, is this a row house? That is, are there other houses immediately adjacent on the two sides? Makes a difference. Second, what -- if any -- insulation is in the walls and roof?

Third, what radiation is in there now? Steam radiators? Hot water radiators? Hot water baseboard? How much of it, and how big are they?

Now we get to the objective. Removing steam heat which is functioning is never (well hardly ever -- if the boiler is a century or so old maybe...) cost effective, and rarely satisfactory from the comfort point of view. So what is it that you are trying to accomplish? if the objective is to be greener than your best bet is to remove the hot water boiler and install an air to hot water heat pump. You would use it most of the year, with the steam for the colder nights. You won't save money that way -- not at New York's electricity rates -- but you will save energy.

sashas

Thanks for the reply.

There are houses immediately adjacent on the two sides.
I don't have information about insulation in walls and roof but I assume it is R30 as per NYC requirements. There are no issues with insulation as I have seen. The house keeps warm air during the winter and cool air during the summer.

Radiators:
- Basement: 4 water baseboard radiators by the runtal company: 2x 2ft, 3.5Ft, 5ft, 6ft
- 1FL: heated floor (using water - the same boiler as the basement) and one 2ft runtal baseboard in bathroom.
- 2FL: Penco old steam boiler: 5 radiators. I don't know how to tell its specs because they are really old.


What I trying to accomplish:

I trying to find to if I can use the same water boiler (which is new and was installed last year) for the 2nd floor and remove a steam one. My idea is that it would be gas cost (1 boiler will be used instead of 2) and also it would help me to organize space in the boiler room.
As per my understanding, there might be a case where I need to get another water boiler that can support the whole house and it may be more expensive than the current setup. But in the case, the current setup can support additional radiators then it makes sense to replace it. I see that the water boiler can have a capacity of 96000 BTU/H and I wonder how can I convert it to a number of radiators or how it works.

Thanks in advance.

Mad Dog_2

Good morning Sachas!  There's more real life experience and nuance to sizing a boiler than straight calculations.  In your case, a field visit to your home by an experienced industry installer/designer would behoove you.  The small fee you would pay, would save you alot of trouble going foward whether you are planning to do this yourself or will be taking bids.  Atleast, you'll armed with the facts.  You'll also have a personal advocate and sounding board to help you make the right decision for you.  Mad Dog 🐕 

reggi

Eliminate a steam boiler and add 8 radiators to the remaining hot water heater ? Hmmm. Doubt it5

Larry Weingarten

Hi @sashas , It looks like you are trying to educate yourself all about hydronic heating. There is a LOT to know! Have a look in the bookstore here and consider "We Got Steam Heat!" as a good start to your education. "Greening Steam" is another good one to look at. The more you know, the better your questions will become.
I'd be looking to do a heat loss calculation for your house, in addition to looking at a year's worth of utility bills, so you can get a good idea how much energy your place needs. Once you know the need, you can figure out how to supply it. That's the sequence. Also, if there are things you can do to prevent air leakage (think blower door) or better insulate, that will make it easier to figure out your heating.

Yours, Larry

Ironman

Believing that using one boiler instead of two would reduce energy is a faulty assumption.
 Energy usage is based directly upon the actual heat loss of the structure, not how many boilers you have. In other words, the same amount of heat will leak out of your house regardless of how many boilers there are. There may be some minor energy savings going to one boiler if the two combined are grossly over-sized, but it’s not worth the expense.

As mentioned, your steam radiators and piping may not be suitable for hot water. They also may not be of sufficient size since their output would be 2/3rds on hot water what they are on steam.

As Mad Dog recommended, you should have a hydronic expert evaluate everything.

sashas

Thanks for the answers.

@Mad Dog_2 @Larry Weingarten @Ironman Would anyone of you can stop by and do a hydronic evaluation in Brooklyn, NY, by any chance?

Larry Weingarten

Hi, I’m on the wrong coast, but I do see seventeen listings for New York under find a contractor, including Mad Dog 🐕 👍

Yours, Larry