All-electric replacement for Munchkin?

Msrc

My first time posting here. 

We have a Munchkin MU-199M that was installed in 2007 and may need to be replaced. 

I’d like to avoid another gas boiler if possible because my plumber (who’s serviced the Munckin for several years) is telling me it will cost upwards of $K to install a new high efficiency boiler and hot water system and bring everything up to current code. 

Are there any high-efficiency electric replacements out there yet? 

Thanks for any tips. 

p.s. we might be able to extend the life of the Munchkin if we can find a replacement heat exchanger. Plumber says none are available from suppliers. 

pecmsg

Pricing not allowed!

Define Up to Code?

GGross

Forget a replacement heat exchanger, if you find one it will be o dubious origin.

As for switching to electric, I don't see how the install will be any cheaper if the issue is "bringing it up to code" We would need clarification on what needs to be done. That being said every electric boiler is technically 100% efficient since there is no flue, an air-to-water heat pump would be a better choice if your climate can support it. As for electric boiler brands I like electro boiler and argo.

Hot_water_fan

https://www.caleffi.com/sites/default/files/file/idronics_27_na.pdf

A good place to start! 

Jamie Hall

In sort of a direct answer to your question, yes there are electric boilers out there. There are also air to water heat pumps, which are a lot less expensive to run -- and far more expensive to purchase. Whether either one is even remotely pracitcal in your situation depends on several factors. First, the climate -- heat pumps are, so far, not an alternative sole source heating arrangement if the outdoor temperatures get to low single digits, never mind below zero. Second, heat pumps cannot at last as yet get the water anywhere near as hot as a boiler can, and this may be limiting depending on what radiation you have installed. Third, straight electric boilers can be horrendously expensive to run, depending on the electricity rates in your area.

Neither one will keep you warm if you have a power outage, which may be a consideration in some areas.

Last, whatever new heat source you put in, the installation costs to have it done right are going to be very similar., so that shouldn't be a factor.

Hot_water_fan

I wonder if the "code" part is related to the chimney. If so, the electric path could very well be cheaper.

clammy

Unless the boiler was installed improperly that price seems absurd . You should do a little research and have a heat lose done to ensure the boiler is not over sized . A 199 btu boiler can heat a quite large home . Switching to a electric boiler will surely cost and you would need a larger than 200 amp service more money . Take a look at at htp Elu boilers even though some repiping is always has to be done including new expansion tank prv n backflow and a good system flush and water treatment . With todays rising prices of all goods what ever price you get quoted the longer you wait the more the price rises . Good side is most all mod cons now a days have better turndown ratios then your existing munchkins . I have a m80 still chugging along older then yours .
Peace and good luck clammy

JUGHNE

Not a chimney code issue as the Munchkin is a condensing boiler with PVC venting, perhaps sidewall.

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

Like everyone else here - and maybe we’re not getting the whole story - the argument for an electric boiler doesn’t hold water. 

My Munchkin died last year and I replaced it with another condensing boiler. Pretty much impossible to replace the heat exchanger. 
I’d get a second opinion. 

GroundUp

Enough electric boiler to fill a 199k load, along with the cost of new electric service to run it, will easily cost double what a simple gas boiler replacement will. Electro Industries makes the best electric boiler on the market, IMO, but if the reason for switching is upfront cost, you're barking up the wrong tree.

Msrc

I’ve been offline for the last few days, so just catching up with this. Thanks for all of the responses!

I’ll try to answer as many questions as I can.

Up to code: Munchkin was installed with PVC chimney, but current code in NYC requires stainless steel and it will be a longer run because the plumber who installed the Munchkin put the exhaust too close to the property line. Also, he didn’t file with the city to shift from atmospheric to condensing boiler, so we’d have to pay for permitting which will add $4K to the job.

I wish heat pumps were an option, but there are several heavily used rooms in which there’s no wall space to accommodate them.

So it sounds like an electric boiler is not a cost-effective alternative. I hate to go backwards, but are there higher efficiency atmospheric boilers that would be cheaper than the Lochinvar condensing boiler that the new plumber has proposed?

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

Tell us more about your setup:
- radiant heating in the floor or radiators?
- how many square feet?
- do you have an indirect water heater the uses the boiler as the heat source?
- single family residence?

pecmsg

Msrc said:

I’ve been offline for the last few days, so just catching up with this. Thanks for all of the responses! I’ll try to answer as many questions as I can. Up to code: Munchkin was installed with PVC chimney, but current code in NYC requires stainless steel and it will be a longer run because the plumber who installed the Munchkin put the exhaust too close to the property line. Also, he didn’t file with the city to shift from atmospheric to condensing boiler, so we’d have to pay for permitting which will add $4K to the job. I wish heat pumps were an option, but there are several heavily used rooms in which there’s no wall space to accommodate them. So it sounds like an electric boiler is not a cost-effective alternative. I hate to go backwards, but are there higher efficiency atmospheric boilers that would be cheaper than the Lochinvar condensing boiler that the new plumber has proposed?

Where there’s a will there’s a way. 

GroundUp

Since when does NYC require SS venting on a high efficiency appliance? As of last week, polypropylene and CPVC were perfectly acceptable in NYC. $4k for a permit? I think someone might be feeding you some falsities. If anything, an atmospheric boiler would cost you more upfront because it needs a vertical, metallic flue and the boiler itself is of similar cost.

Msrc

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes said:

Tell us more about your setup: - radiant heating in the floor or radiators? - how many square feet? - do you have an indirect water heater the uses the boiler as the heat source? - single family residence?

- Single family residence 
- 3200 square feet 
- radiators
- indirect water heater 

Thanks!

dko

Non-condensing high efficiency units require SS venting. I get this issue a lot- homeowners and contractors alike purchase non-condensing tankless water heaters because they are half the price of the condensing counterpart. Not realizing they will be spending more than the cost of the tankless unit itself in vent piping unless it's going right out behind the wall it's hung on.