Water heater anode rod

STEAM DOCTOR

Good morning. Is there ever a good reason for not installing a powered anode rod on new water heaters. Adds about $150 in cost and minimal labor. The benefits seem to be immense. Am I missing something (regarding this discussion 🤣)? Thanks. 

STEAM DOCTOR

I have never seen a powered anode in the field. I do know nobody ever replaces the anode rods. At least in my part of the jungle!!

MikeL_2

     Interesting start to a thread, Steam DR. 
     Even with a powered anode, water heaters should still have an annual draining & flushing so the tank bottom stays protected; relief valves should be exercised annually, too. And should we also be trying to sell / include expansion tanks, tempering valves, & prvs with every water heater install?
     I think we're not doing a good enough job selling the importance of preventative maintenance compared to obsolescence. Or perhaps the cost / benefit ratio doesn't add up to true savings; what is the cost for annual water heater service and add on equipment verses total water heater replacement every 7 or 8 years? 
        Other factors can influence water heater failure including excessive pressure, water condition issues, type of water supply, water temperature, water treatment equipment, flow rates & sizing, etc.....

Gilmorrie

My experience is the same as Steam Dr - water heater anode rods are not replaced in my area.

STEAM DOCTOR

My finding is that it's difficult to sell things years down the road. Tell customer to drain annually or replace/inspect anode rod every three years, will never happen. But selling the powered anode at installation, for few extra dollars, stands a good chance. 

Dave Carpentier

I think people dont care and/or dont remember PM.
Run it until it breaks, kinda thing.

How did the auto industry convince (most) people to do regular oil changes ?
In the long-ago, I used to forget oil changes. The more modern autos tell you on the dash.. "Hey, change the oil ! " Maybe appliances need some form of that ?
How about a stick-on "Maintenance Reminder" timer box that lights up a red light to say "Hey, change the anode ! " ?

ratio

Doesn't work. I regularly reset the change-engine-oil light in my van, as well as the change-water-filter light on the fridge. Now, I do change the oil (two quarts at a time!), but I quit changing the water filter as soon as I realized how much it cost.

109A_5

The Tank's OEM warranty ? Does it void it ? In the eyes of the OEM there is any proof the power supply for the powered Anode Rod was ever powered up and works correctly and / or remained powered up should the tank prematurely fail.

STEAM DOCTOR

109A_5 said:

The Tank's OEM warranty ? Does it void it ? In the eyes of the OEM there is any proof the power supply for the powered Anode Rod was ever powered up and works correctly and / or remained powered up should the tank prematurely fail.

Some might suggest reinstalling the OEM anode rod at that point. Just saying 

guzzinerd

We have a 20year old commercial 100gallon AOS gas water heater in my apt building.

I replaced the anode rod when i bought the place 2 yrs ago and there was almost nothing left on it.  Just replaced it again a couple weeks ago and had a little bit of deterioration.  

The rod this year was $54 delivered and it's literally a 5 minute job to swap out so I'll keep doing it every 2 years. (I used the same impact wrench i used for the old radiator trap lids).

The annual draining and cleaning of the tank takes a lot longer to do.  Well worth keeping the water heater alive IMHO.

MikeAmann

I have 2 of these - one for the IWH, and the other for the boiler.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/142271777319?_trkparms=amclksrc=ITM&aid=1110006&algo=HOMESPLICE.SIM&ao=1&asc=20200818142401&meid=2e4a60c08484403396073f417b3ddb5a&pid=101124&rk=5&rkt=12&sd=175362282626&itm=142271777319&pmt=0&noa=1&pg=2563228&algv=DefaultOrganicWeb&brand=TEC&_trksid=p2563228.c101124.m2109

guzzinerd

STEAM DOCTOR said:

My finding is that it's difficult to sell things years down the road. Tell customer to drain annually or replace/inspect anode rod every three years, will never happen. But selling the powered anode at installation, for few extra dollars, stands a good chance. 

Do the powered anodes work as well as OEM?  If so, then why aren't powered rods built into new units? Planned obsolescence?

ChrisJ

I replaced the rod in mine and made sure it was always in good shape.

Tank still started leaking at 11 years old and the anode was still very beefy.

Never tried a powered one but I have a feeling it won't help

kcopp

I actually asked HTP about this on their SS Contender units... It voided the warranty.
As it stands now the only time I install these is if there is a water issue where the aluminum or magnesium ones give odor or an air issue w/ the water from the well.
I would be happy to try it as a regular practice but generally speaking people are not interested.

STEAM DOCTOR

In my area, over 90 percent of the tanks, are free standing, gas fired, atmospheric, AO Smith water heaters. AO Smith does not check anything. They sub everything out to a third party who just collects the sticker from the tank.

Larry Weingarten

Hi, Like @kcopp , I install powered anodes only when there is an odor or access problem. Powered rods do fail unfortunately and need to be looked at periodically. One thing I did in my water heater servicing business was to put a sticker on the tank saying what I did and when the next service should happen, along with mailing out a reminder postcard when that date was coming up. The response rate was greater than 50% on those cards, even if the home had changed hands. I figured there must be a reason dentists do that!

Yours, Larry

MikeAmann

guzzinerd said:

STEAM DOCTOR said:

My finding is that it's difficult to sell things years down the road. Tell customer to drain annually or replace/inspect anode rod every three years, will never happen. But selling the powered anode at installation, for few extra dollars, stands a good chance. 

Do the powered anodes work as well as OEM?  If so, then why aren't powered rods built into new units? Planned obsolescence?

I would have to agree with you about planned obsolescence. Also if there were a failure, it's easier to blame the other product and get out of honoring a warranty. It's too early to tell how the powered anodes are working for me, and I will be selling the house in the near future, but one of the main reasons that I went this route is that nothing gets dissolved into the water.

The unit that I linked above is guaranteed for life!

Larry Weingarten

Hi, Powered or impressed current anodes are sometimes installed in high end residential and commercial tanks. Most people when shopping for a tank only consider cost, so the manufacturers compete on cost, making tanks as inexpensively as possible. If more people wanted the best tank, we would probably still be able to buy copper and monel ones!

Yours, Larry

guzzinerd

$100 doesn't seem like very much to spend on not having to swap out anode rods.

Just curious, do they work using the same principles as electric water de-scaler/conditioners?  

https://watersoftenercritic.com/eddy-electronic-descaler-review/

Larry Weingarten

Hi, From the book Corrosion Engineering, "Cathodic protection is achieved by supplying electrons to the metal structure to be protected." ... Sacrificial anodes and impressed current anodes both do this, just in different ways. It's a completely different approach than the magnetic approach to non-chemical water treatment ... as I understand it. From my plumber's perspective, I see it as driving the rusting reaction backwards.

Yours, Larry

Robomoo

These powered anode roads - anybody have experience with water with a touch of sulphur? Have tried aluminum, does reduce smell somewhat but not completely. Have none in there at the moment. Side note check with your insurance. Most don't like the tank over 10yrs old. You should get a discount when you replace the tank. We did.

clammy

Years ago buderus indirect tanks can w a powered anode unfortunately some never hooked them up and other not realizing its purpose un plugged them and had there tanks fail in a few years . The few which stayed plugged in are still functioning. I guess buderus had seen a lot of no plug ins so they switched to a regular anode rod .
I had though of installing them on indirects but the literature didn’t allude me to believe that there would be enough current for the mass of steel from the tank and coil . And I also know no one who regularly changes anodes or any customers who say ok except for the one or two buderus tanks I have left out there and a few bock tanks that I have installed which I usually check about bi yearly .
It is a great concept and surprised we all don’t see more or see any manufactures offering a add on kit for x$ but if tanks lasted 20 years then they ain’t selling as many tanks lowering production and replacement revenue . I will say though the oldest buderus tank I have out there ( just service ) is close to 30 years old and I only changed the anode about 2 years ago first time ever and it wasn’t completely gone and the tank had zero corrosion but I did remove about 15 gallons of sea shell like material, zero water treatment and extremely hard water off the scale .
With the rising price of hot water heaters I’m surprised no one is more heavily marketing them ,I would think that it would be a positive up sale w benefits for the consumer and also would not require yearly or bi year removal and replacement ,just be sure it’s still plugged in and operational .
What’s funny last time I look at don’t believe buderus offers them any more but while in Germany decades ago I was shown powered anodes for the indirects and also on a larger heating job ( city square block ) they had powered anodes and a sort a wave effects electronic water treatment on the make up to the system . Those Germans plenty of time to think about everything and cover there butts mechanically .what a wonderful place it was where all things mechanical always took 1 priority and where always beautiful . Ya look at some of the work performed in this country and realize what garbage workmanship more sales bs then quality and awesome business men but total crap in the follow through plus lack of true craftsman’s taking pride ok I’m stepping away from the coffee now

Peace and good luck clammy

MikeGordon

Hello Steam Doctor;

In my opinion, yes, there are a few good technical reasons for not using a powered (impressed current) anode and staying with the manufacturer supplied sacrificial anode (or anodes). The reasons that come immediately to mind include: increased "shadowing" potential, possibly no water heater "burn in", only offering protection when powered, and less dimensional coverage range.

Just as Larry Weingarten noted above, protection of the tank steel occurs when the proper amount of electrons (current flow) with at least the minimum electrical potential (voltage) are transferred from the anode to the cathode (tank steel). This electron transfer then greatly slows/stops the chemical reaction transforming iron (in the tank steel) to iron oxide (rust/corrosion). A physical property of steel dictates a certain minimum voltage (electrical potential) required to stop the transformation to iron oxide. That voltage can be supplied by galvanic reaction, for example the difference in electrical potential between magnesium and steel, in a sacrificial anode, or the voltage can be supplied by line electricity through an un-reactive (titanium, for example) powered anode rod.

Cathodic protection of water heaters involves VERY complex scientific processes with many, many chemical, electrical and material property variables determining what happens when the water heater operates and ages. Cathodic protection is only one aspect of water heater protection. Porcelain enamel composition, coverage and application, as well as water heater design and construction details are critical interdependent considerations. The water properties determine how all the variables interact and their relative effect and importance.

All of the above is the convoluted engineer way to say: it depends. The specific powered anode model's operating paramaters in the specific water heater with the specific water quality determine if any of my above noted disadvantages are concerning in the real water heater. In the end, unless there was a good reason such as rotten egg smell or knowing the anode would never be changed yet the customer still wanting maximum water heater longevity, I trust the water heater manufacturer to know their product and have the variables covered with the supplied sacrificial anode.

Hope this helps!

Mike Gordon

Larry Weingarten

Hi @Robomoo , Powered anodes are commonly used to fight the rotten egg odor. Sulfate reducing bacteria are the reason for it and hydrogen gas feeds those bacteria. It seems that powered anodes don't generate hydrogen, which sacrificial anodes do. Magnesium anodes are more reactive than aluminum, so produce more hydrogen/odor, particularly if the water sits unused in a tank for much time. A quick fix is to put hydrogen peroxide in the tank. The added oxygen gets rid of the smelly bacteria in a non-toxic way.

@clammy , I think you're drinking the right sort of coffee!

Yours, Larry

Tomhank

A sacrificial component of a gas water heater system is the anode rod. It shields the tank walls during sacrificial oxidation by drawing the corrosive elements in the water to itself. Anode rod units are mostly used for that.

Mad Dog_2

Steam Doctor...like a Taco WAGs Valve after a water heater let's go , or redundant low water cutoffs, ONLY very fastidious homeowners are going to spend the extra $$ and keep up with the maintenance.  Its "Run to Failure" for most of us..not recommend but very common .  Mad Dog 🐕 

jesmed1

STEAM DOCTOR said:

Good morning. Is there ever a good reason for not installing a powered anode rod on new water heaters. Adds about $150 in cost and minimal labor. The benefits seem to be immense. Am I missing something (regarding this discussion 🤣)? Thanks. 

We have a 75-gallon water heater that serves 4 condo units, so it is heavily used. I've been installing magnesium anode rods ever 1-2 years, but got tired of doing that, so I just installed a powered Corro-Protec anode rod. I guess time will tell.

mattmia2

The powered anode is ultimately cheaper than the magnesium anodes if you are replacing them every year or 2.

jesmed1

mattmia2 said:

The powered anode is ultimately cheaper than the magnesium anodes if you are replacing them every year or 2.

That's the way I figured it.

The original anode was a bear to get out, and ultimately needed a 7 amp corded impact wrench. The impact wrench was the magic touch. I've seen plumbers talking about using 1/2" socket wrenches with a pipe extension, and then needing to restrain the body of the water heater against turning, but once you use an impact wrench to blast that thing out in 10 seconds, you realize it's the perfect tool for the job.