Wax Cap or Poo?

reggi

Get a few wax rings ( just in case )  , remove the nuts and wiggle the toilet loose , lay it down on it's side , stuff something in the pipe to keep the sewer gas out, wipe the old wax off the flange and horn . .. spray some cleaner disinfectant for nasty stuff on the floor and clean it up real good..
If nothing is busted put the ring on and set the toilet. ...if something is busted take pictures and measurements then put 2 wax rings on and set the toilet..... Either way you'll be able to take a breath and be done or know what you need... and it shouldn't take you more than 45 - 60 minutes.. 
(Hint...best to work when the Hardware stores are open...) good luck 👍

taylorgeo

@reggi Thanks man!

As far as flanges go, the part that goes into the pipe, does it have to be a tight seal?

I've seen these Oatey PVC flanges that have expanding rubber gaskets. They get so tight inside the pipe that you can almost get away with not screwing the flange to the subfloor.

reggi

How old is the house..
Who installed the tile? Who installed the toilet ?
Did the house have this second floor bathroom when your parents bought it or did they add it..
How tall is the floor compared to the moulding and entrance..?
Maybe it was a big box store deal and they just stacked wax rings and now...who knows who plunges when the lights are off... The wax is blown out... nobody would put boiling water down there or use the same thing you would pour down the drain for a hair clog... Right ? Plunger blow out.. 
You got..it. . if you need to Hire someone..

hot_rod

pump or plunge the water completely out first if you flip the toilet

Mad Dog_2

Where's the job buddy?  I'm on my way.. seriously...If any Wallie is nearby and has an hour, help this brother out.  Make sure yiu have everything you need....You have to work very fast once plaster is mixed, but thats the worst of it... can't worry about flange till you pull bowl.  98% of the time, they are fine. Mad Dog 🐕 

taylorgeo

NYC! I think I found the pipe going up to the second floor toilet. Can't tell if it's Cast Iron or Lead. House was built in 1945.

Here's a photo...

reggi

You're dragging it out because whatever is in the basement is irrelevant to what is under the toilet which has been changed since the 40's a long with the tiling and whatever what laid down if anything over the original floor meaning the flange has been at least addressed before so I doubt you'll be doing anything but cleaning up and resetting the toilet.. 
You don't want that leaking between the floors so decide ...
Best I could say is don't think you're going to remodel the bathroom... you're going to get that toilet and floor cleaned, ring it and set it... that's it !! Done..
You're on the internet, watch some videos..easy peasy ones ..not the ones with 4 guys talking about new products you'll never need. . keep it simple 👍

taylorgeo

@reggie Yeah, you’re right. With 2 elderly parents here, I just don’t we be caught between a rock and a hard place if it’s something I can’t repair and need to get a plumber here ASAP.

reggi

Sure I understand... just wanted to make sure you understood that poo isn't going to plug the seal and that water is the stuff squeezing from the bowl when it's flushed..
Going on the floor isn't healthy either for your elderly parents... get a friend or relative to help .. IDK what else to say.. here's a video https://youtu.be/IUIW4Rqvz-M

ethicalpaul

I'm way too invested in what is going to be under that toilet. Please take some pics so I don't always wonder!

taylorgeo

@ethicalpaul Absolutely! You and everyone on this thread earned them!

ChrisJ

ethicalpaul said:

I'm way too invested in what is going to be under that toilet. Please take some pics so I don't always wonder!

We really can't take you anywhere............

taylorgeo

Just received shipment of our new Kohler. Have some pics here. Anything look damaged to you all (aside from the box)?

Larry Weingarten

Hi, I'd want to see the underside of the bowl. Rarely, there can be fine cracks there that leak. That tank top is nothing to be proud of, but it's nicely vented. Sort of surprising that the animals who shipped it didn't break things. It's always best to double box ceramics and cast iron.

Yours, Larry

taylorgeo

@Larry Weingarten It came freight, and the bowl and tank were packed in two boxes, unlike the big box stores.

Didn't like these scratches on the bowl. Thought it was dirt, it ain't.

Mad Dog_2

Stuff comes damaged ALL the time! It's a pain in the neck and awkward sometimes but you're paying good $$! I remember getting my $6000.00 Kohler Jacuzzi delivered by an impatient jerk from Blackman Plumbing Supply (ten store chain on Long Island and The City which Ferguson bought out, 3 years ago.) This was about 2002. Having learned the hard way that you must always check your stuff before they drive off (which can never be soon enough for them!), I very politely told the driver that I needed a few minutes to open the crate and check the Jacuzzi for damage. He gave me about a 30 second grace period until he began to huff and puff and started throwing a fit. He started shoving the packing slip in my face, trying to force me to sign saying, calling me an A----- for holding up his route! The guy was so rude, aggressive, and RIGHT on the edge of getting physical, that I got on the phone to the salesmen I bought it through. The salesman says, "PUT HIM ON THE PHONE!!!!!" (Just what you wanna do..share your cell phone with a raging lunatic driver, you never met!). The Psycho Driver screamed at him too! I finished up my inspection faster than I wanted, but it looked ok, so I signed and let him leave. The salesman called later to apologize and said, it won't happen again. That was the last straw....FIRED! Its YOUR $$$, don't let ANYONE pressure or try to embarrass you. It's like sometimes that awkward minute counting out a lot of cash you're about to exchange: You have one shot or forever hold your tongue! Mad Dog

ethicalpaul

My toilet just like this one arrived in 100 pieces. The replacement had one chip out of the base that didn't affect anything so I let it slide. UPS just throws stuff from the truck to the warehouse floor I think.

ChrisJ

ethicalpaul said:

My toilet just like this one arrived in 100 pieces. The replacement had one chip out of the base that didn't affect anything so I let it slide. UPS just throws stuff from the truck to the warehouse floor I think.

They all do.
That's why proper packaging is a must.

taylorgeo

Drum roll…

PVC FLANGE WITH BUSTED METAL RING ONE INCH ABOVE FINISHED FLOOR GLUED INTO PVC PIPE. THEY USED PLASTER TO RAISE THE OLD TOILET.

PLUMBER CAME VERY LATE IN THE DAY, DIDN’T HAVE THE TOOLS AND MATERIALS TO FIX ON THE SPOT. GOING TO CUT OUT THE OLD FLANGE AND A SMALL SECTION OF THE PIPE IT’S CEMENTED TO. THEN INSTALL NEW PVC FLANGE TO FINISHED FLOOR. HOWEVER, HE DOESN'T THINK HE CAN SCREW THE FLANGE INTO THE SUBFLOOR BECAUSE IT COULD BE ROTTED. NOTHING TO GRAB IT.

HE PUT THE OLD TOILET BACK FOR THE EVENING, WITH A NEW WAX RING AND A SILICONE SEAL AT BASE. BUT COULD NOT OBVIOUSLY BOLT IT BACK IN.

NIGHTMARE!!!!!!!

taylorgeo

hot_rod

A very common failure, unfortunately.
You sure don't want to reset that toilet on a rotted subfloor, permanently.
You may have some mold mitigation work to do.

taylorgeo

@hot_rod Yeah. He quoted me $250 for just swapping out the toilet. Now it’s $500 total for the extra step of fixing the flange/pipe. Seems a bit much. 

reggi

Strangely enough that mold looks dry where I'd expect it to be wet..Who cleaned it ?

hot_rod

What about fixing the floor? The closet flange needs to be fastened down solidly. Which would also involve some tile work. Is that all included?

taylorgeo

@reggi No one cleaned anything. Is that mold? It’s more brown, looks like poo to me. 

taylorgeo

@hot_rod Nope. Those tiles might be okay after I clean off the crud. I just need the new toilet up and running ASAP. I told him we need to try and screw the new flange down. I got two elderly parents here. It’s a f’d up situation. 

hot_rod

Trust me, that wood floor which the flange needs to fasten too needs to be looked at and possibly replaced. If not the toilet and flange are just hanging in space.

With that much “goo” it’s hard to believe it hasn’t been leaking for some time, and the wood subfloor would take most of the leak.

How’s the smell in that room? Wet wood from a toilet leak has a noticeable, not generally pleasant, smell.

I would hope a plumber would not set a toilet on a saturated wood floor!

Mold and elderly folk isn’t a good mix either😳

psb75

I will state the obvious just for "reinforcement" of a basic concept: the ONLY thing holding the toilet firmly to the house is 1.) gravity and 2.) a pair of toilet bolts with their oval heads held by the metal flange which should be screwed very positively with multiple screws to a very solid and sound floor. The floor material CANNOT be compromised. If it is...it MUST be fixed/replaced.

ethicalpaul

One thing about gravity, it's very reliable

Gsmith

and if the floor is unsound, gravity will prove how reliable it really is.

heathead

Late to the game but, did you know they make a comfort height toilet. It is an inch or two taller than the standard toilet. For the elderly it is nicer to get up from a higher seat. Please make sure it's bolted to something solid. Because when they get older and need to mount a seat with rails that puts lots of stain on things below, and you don't want this to happen again.

ChrisJ

I'm sure everyone's over reacting, it'll be fine.

JUGHNE

If the house was built in 1945, then there may be good lumber and or plywood possibly totaling 1 1/2" thick under the WC.

That would not rotted away to nothing, I have put new flanges or questionable floor structure with out a problem.

If you have to replace the wood floor then plan on new tile....it does not end there, you may end up gutting the room. Ask me how I know that.

Mad Dog_2

Hilarious but true commentary.  Anyone can half-A-- it!  This is your in laws right? (Uh...that could go two ways...).  
1] Hot water and bleach the H--ll out of that 
    Pusillanimous pile of "Goo"  aka 💩 . 
*reminds me of just about EVERY non-plumber who shows you a sewer back up in the basement and says - with great hope...
"...I KNOW its not #2 water. Because its clear!!!"  Ha ha...wrong!!!  
2) Get one of those PVC repair insert sleeves that are extra wide on the flange with holes to drive screws in to the tile AND SUBFLOOR
3) Mix a full bucket of plaster (pudding consistency) and go around the flange heavily then all around the rim.  Work quick and sqoooush it down w all your weight.

4) Have a  large wet sponge w a  bucket of clear cold water 💧 to rinse sponge and keep cutting away plaster and wiping clean and hand tighten nuts
5) goose the nuts just 3/4 of a turn

You should be be for 5 to 10 yrs. If not. You're opening the ceiling below and doing surgery.   Mad Dog. 

hot_rod

I use DAP in a tube to seal the the toilet to the floor. Some plumbers leave a small opening in the DAP seal at the very back of the toilet as a leak detection path should the bowl seal ever leak.

if you wet mop the floor, the toilet needs to be sealed with a waterproof proof sealer

It lessens the potential of a pile or brown goo build up and rotted subfloor under the toilet to have a leak path

sealing the flange to the tile also keeps any leak from getting to the wood subfloor. The flange needs to be on top of the tile, not recessed below.

reggi

@taylorgeo Well we're still interested if this has been resolved and how you went about it... Or what still has to be finished..