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Honeywell Pressuretrol setting

guzzinerd
guzzinerd Member Posts: 54
edited January 24 in Strictly Steam
These are the settings on my Bryant 245-8.  Are they ok?  If not, how do I adjust this thing?

Thanks


Steam noob.  Bryant 245-8 in a 1930s 6-unit 1-story apt building in the NM mountains.  26 radiators heating up 3800sqf.

Comments

  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 4,932
    edited January 24
    Looks a little high to me.
    look here https://heatinghelp.com/systems-help-center/how-to-set-and-adjust-the-boiler-pressure-control/
    there are screws at the top that adjust the two scales. 2 PSI is the max I would set on a residential heating system. The cut in should be about .05 PSI
    Edward Young Retired HVAC Contractor & HYDRONICIAN Services first oil burner at age 16 P/T trainer for EH-CC.org
    guzzinerd
  • guzzinerd
    guzzinerd Member Posts: 54
    edited January 24
    When you say cut, you mean the diff. pressure?  

    Lowered the main to 2


    Steam noob.  Bryant 245-8 in a 1930s 6-unit 1-story apt building in the NM mountains.  26 radiators heating up 3800sqf.
  • guzzinerd
    guzzinerd Member Posts: 54
    Like this?  Sorry not sure what you mean by cut.. is it the diff?


    Steam noob.  Bryant 245-8 in a 1930s 6-unit 1-story apt building in the NM mountains.  26 radiators heating up 3800sqf.
  • Waher
    Waher Member Posts: 70
    edited January 24
    The "diff is subtractive" side on the left means subtract this diff # from the # on the right to get the "cut-in" #.
    So on the right the "2" set on the Main is the "cut out" pressure, to set the cut-in on the left you want it lowered to a DIFF of 1.5

    This will give you the cut in pressure of 0.5PSI with the cut out at 2psi.

    The adjustment screws are on the top of the pressuretrol on the back left side.
  • guzzinerd
    guzzinerd Member Posts: 54
    edited January 24
    Waher said:
    The "diff is subtractive" side on the left means subtract this diff # from the # on the right to get the "cut-in" #. So on the right the "2" set on the Main is the "cut out" pressure, to set the cut-in on the left you want it lowered to a DIFF of 1.5 This will give you the cut in pressure of 0.5PSI with the cut out at 2psi. The adjustment screws are on the top of the pressuretrol on the back left side.
    Got it. So if the min diff on this gauge being 2 i just set it a bit below like so?



    And should I hang around and wait for it to cycle on to make sure the new settings didn't hurt anything?
    Steam noob.  Bryant 245-8 in a 1930s 6-unit 1-story apt building in the NM mountains.  26 radiators heating up 3800sqf.
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 13,111
    Yes hang around for a couple of cycles.

    You might lower the main just under 2. You want the burner to cut back on just before the gauge hits 0.

    But try what you have for now. The pressure control settings are inaccurate usually so you may have to fiddle with it a couple of times to get what you want
  • guzzinerd
    guzzinerd Member Posts: 54
    Yes hang around for a couple of cycles. You might lower the main just under 2. You want the burner to cut back on just before the gauge hits 0. But try what you have for now. The pressure control settings are inaccurate usually so you may have to fiddle with it a couple of times to get what you want
    Ok.  I assume if i don't hear any banging and hissing it's ok then? It was quiet with the original settings.
    Steam noob.  Bryant 245-8 in a 1930s 6-unit 1-story apt building in the NM mountains.  26 radiators heating up 3800sqf.
  • guzzinerd
    guzzinerd Member Posts: 54
    edited January 28
    Ok, the burners are still on and the round gauge is over 3, shouldn't they cut out around 2?  Is this the inaccuracy you guys spoke of?

    While sitting here the burners shut off for about 10 minutes and then turned on again while the usg gauge didn't budge.  Actually, it's barely ever been below 3 an sits close to it when everything is off, could the gauge be defective?



    And if it is defective what do you recommend as a replacement?
    Steam noob.  Bryant 245-8 in a 1930s 6-unit 1-story apt building in the NM mountains.  26 radiators heating up 3800sqf.
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 13,111
    I assume you checked the pigtail and it is clean. Yes the gauge could be off or it could be the pressure control scale inaccuracy. Only a new gauge can tell you. I would put a 0-30 lb gauge (code required and a 0-5 psi gauge on it with a valve under the 0-5 psi gauge only
  • guzzinerd
    guzzinerd Member Posts: 54
    edited January 28
    I assume you checked the pigtail and it is clean. Yes the gauge could be off or it could be the pressure control scale inaccuracy. Only a new gauge can tell you. I would put a 0-30 lb gauge (code required and a 0-5 psi gauge on it with a valve under the 0-5 psi gauge only
    I have not checked it.  Will remove it and use a zip tie and some compressed air to check it out.

    Ok, so a new gauge with 0-30 psi scale and a 0-5 gauge with a shut off valve and put them on a t?

    Thank you
    Steam noob.  Bryant 245-8 in a 1930s 6-unit 1-story apt building in the NM mountains.  26 radiators heating up 3800sqf.
  • guzzinerd
    guzzinerd Member Posts: 54
    edited January 28
    I assume you checked the pigtail and it is clean. Yes the gauge could be off or it could be the pressure control scale inaccuracy. Only a new gauge can tell you. I would put a 0-30 lb gauge (code required and a 0-5 psi gauge on it with a valve under the 0-5 psi gauge only
    Checked the pigtail today and was clear.  The pressure gauge sits at 2.5 even when removed so i replaced it with a new 0-30 Campbell i picked up at the local hardware store.  No one local had an LP gauge so that's on the way from an online supplier.

    I removed the pressuretrol and bench tested it using an air pump.. it's clicking at around 2 psi and again under 1 psi so i assume it's working ok.  I also tested the wiring by removing one of them from the burner control and it stopped it from starting up, so that checks out ok.

    I hope the problem was just a defective pressure gauge (it was registering close to 6psi before shutting off last night), will know this evening when it cycles up again.

    Alex
    Steam noob.  Bryant 245-8 in a 1930s 6-unit 1-story apt building in the NM mountains.  26 radiators heating up 3800sqf.
  • guzzinerd
    guzzinerd Member Posts: 54
    edited January 30


    Been watching the meters and i have main on the trol pretty much bottomed out before it shuts off the burners, close to 4 psi.  The diff setting turns it back on when it's back down to 0. 

    Not sure if it's the cheap gauge or inaccurate trol.   I'll check again with the LP gauge when it arrives next week.  The pigtail is clean, what else should I be checking?

    Thanks 
    Steam noob.  Bryant 245-8 in a 1930s 6-unit 1-story apt building in the NM mountains.  26 radiators heating up 3800sqf.
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 13,111
    That's about all you can do. You might take the p troll off again and check down inside the pipe thread for any debris. It should get lower than 4 psi
  • guzzinerd
    guzzinerd Member Posts: 54
    edited January 30
    That's about all you can do. You might take the p troll off again and check down inside the pipe thread for any debris. It should get lower than 4 psi
    I'll give that a try. 

    Is it possible that the main cut off gets sticky?  

    Also noticed that this MoM near the boiler, above the Dunham trap, is venting a lot at the end and start of each cycle.. that normal?  Should it get a larger vent maybe?


    Steam noob.  Bryant 245-8 in a 1930s 6-unit 1-story apt building in the NM mountains.  26 radiators heating up 3800sqf.
  • neilc
    neilc Member Posts: 2,086
    something seems off there,
    that main turned all the way down is your cut out, ( 0, ? ),
    and the subtractive diff is the cut in, (1), 0 - 1 = it shouldn't be turning on,
    If you pull a wire from the trol does the boiler fire ? it should not,
    if you take that new gage off, it does zero out ?
    then can you breath down thru the gage hole and freely breath into the boiler?
    maybe the top valve on the sightglass is plugged, or the bottom valve also?
    you do want that main scale up closer to 1.5 / 2, but find why the gage is up, and why the trol set as it is, is allowing the boiler on
    known to beat dead horses
  • guzzinerd
    guzzinerd Member Posts: 54
    edited January 30
    neilc said:
    something seems off there, that main turned all the way down is your cut out, ( 0, ?)

    Yes!

    , and the subtractive diff is the cut in, (1), 0 - 1 = it shouldn't be turning on, If you pull a wire from the trol does the boiler fire ?

    No, shuts the burner off when i removed the wire.  The boiler does fire up again after hitting zero psi for a while 

     it should not, if you take that new gage off, it does zero out ?

    Yes, goes to zero

    then can you breath down thru the gage hole and freely breath into the boiler?

    Haven't tried that but i did remove the pigtail and was clear and also looked down into the LWCO and was crusty but clear.  The sight glass valves work ok, not stuck. In fact, changed the glass rubbers less than a year ago.

    maybe the top valve on the sightglass is plugged, or the bottom valve also? you do want that main scale up closer to 1.5 / 2, but find why the gage is up, and why the trol set as it is, is allowing the boiler on

    It's what I'm trying to do.  Tomorrow I'll remove the trol again and make sure there aren't any obstructions

    Everything is working pretty well otherwise, just trying to get it to shut down before hitting 2psi.

    Steam noob.  Bryant 245-8 in a 1930s 6-unit 1-story apt building in the NM mountains.  26 radiators heating up 3800sqf.
  • guzzinerd
    guzzinerd Member Posts: 54
    edited January 30
    Is it possible that the previous trol main setting at 5 was so high that it was the thermostat to shut the burner off and on for so long (years) causing the trol switches to get sticky from non-use?
    Steam noob.  Bryant 245-8 in a 1930s 6-unit 1-story apt building in the NM mountains.  26 radiators heating up 3800sqf.
  • neilc
    neilc Member Posts: 2,086
    take the pigtail off again and poke something long and thin all the way down into the LWCO,
    might be worth taking the whole Y fitting and checking all 3 ports to the Y,
    and the connections back to sightglass valve, LWCO, and up to the piggy,
    and then, the 2 glass valves back into the boiler
    known to beat dead horses
    guzzinerd
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 20,432
    That is a subtractive, not additive, pressuretrol, Says so, right on it. On that type of pressuretrol, the right hand scale is the CUTOUT pressure, nor the cutin, and the left hand scale is the differential, which is subtracted from the cutout on the right hand scale to obtain the desired cutin pressure.

    With the pressuretrol set as shown in your photo, it should never cut in and the boiler shouldn't run at all. If the boiler does, there may be something seriously amiss with the wiring of the controls (it's set to cut out at atmospheric pressure -- 0 -- and cut back in at a vacuum of 1 psi -- which it will never reach).
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • guzzinerd
    guzzinerd Member Posts: 54
    edited January 30
    That is a subtractive, not additive, pressuretrol, Says so, right on it. On that type of pressuretrol, the right hand scale is the CUTOUT pressure, nor the cutin, and the left hand scale is the differential, which is subtracted from the cutout on the right hand scale to obtain the desired cutin pressure. With the pressuretrol set as shown in your photo, it should never cut in and the boiler shouldn't run at all. If the boiler does, there may be something seriously amiss with the wiring of the controls (it's set to cut out at atmospheric pressure -- 0 -- and cut back in at a vacuum of 1 psi -- which it will never reach).
    I understand that.  When the pressure was around 4 psi it wasn't cutting out so i started lowering the main setting on the trol until it did cut off... Near the bottom, since then it's been cutting off around 4 with it set where it is.

    I've been sitting here watching it for a couple hours now....the last couple cycles came and went at zero pressure so i think the thermostat is running things since it's not very cold outside tonight (40° now).  Going home and will look at it all again tomorrow.

    Thanks 

    Just had a thought.  When i originally tried lowering the main setting from 5 to 2 the screw was raising up out of the box instead of pushing the indicator down... Pushing down on the raised screw did lodge the indicator loose.. could that have maybe messed up the calibration?
    Steam noob.  Bryant 245-8 in a 1930s 6-unit 1-story apt building in the NM mountains.  26 radiators heating up 3800sqf.
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 20,432
    Yes -- the screw should only raise or lower the indicator and the associated links inside. I'm going to say that something inside that pressuretrol has come undone. It happens. Whether it's fixable or not depends a lot on how clever a mechanic is working on it. One caution, though -- the wiring may be 120 volt, so I'd only take the cover off and poke around with the power turned off.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    guzzinerd
  • guzzinerd
    guzzinerd Member Posts: 54
    edited January 30
    Yes -- the screw should only raise or lower the indicator and the associated links inside. I'm going to say that something inside that pressuretrol has come undone. It happens. Whether it's fixable or not depends a lot on how clever a mechanic is working on it. One caution, though -- the wiring may be 120 volt, so I'd only take the cover off and poke around with the power turned off.
    .not surprisingly, found instructions from an old heating help thread:

    https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/149944/i-figured-out-how-to-calibrate-a-pressuretrol

    This is literally the friendliest, most helpful forum I've ever encountered.
    Steam noob.  Bryant 245-8 in a 1930s 6-unit 1-story apt building in the NM mountains.  26 radiators heating up 3800sqf.