Smell gas but leak not detected

LINDON

Yellow Gastite was installed in my home in May 2022 because the old pipes kept developing leaks. In October 2022 when I happened to be close to the manifold, there was the light smell of gas. The gas company detected it at 20 ppm. The installer replaced one fitting and tightened the other. A few days later I was about two feet away from the manifold and could smell gas again. This time the intensity varied. One minute it was light, then stronger and then nothing and this kept happening over and over again. The gas company could not detect a leak this time. I left a detailed message for the original installer but they did not call me back so I got another contractor to attempt to detect the leak and they couldn't find anything either. I continue to smell gas off and on when I get near the manifold and, of course, this concerns me. I attach photos of the manifold, the manifold and furnace with the peeling chimney in between, another photo of the furnace and manifold, the hot water heater behind the furnace, where the gas line comes into the house and the meter. Any ideas about what might be happening?

Larry Weingarten

Can you post a picture of the manifold and any regulator or other valving it may be attached to? Is there any other gasline or equipment close by?

Yours, Larry

LINDON

Hi Larry, I have edited my post to include the pictures. All that is left is the line running in between the meter and the manifold and then the line that runs to the furnace and then over to the hot water heater.
No other gas line. Thank you.

Larry Weingarten

Hi, When it's not too inconvenient, I'd try shutting off the furnace and/or the water heater and see if that has any effect on the gas smell. As they are all sorta close together, the odor could drift, and make it hard to pinpoint where it's coming from.

Yours, Larry

Tim McElwain

Youi need the gas company to come and do a tight test on your system.

LINDON

Both the gas company and contractor did either a dial test or a pressure test and turned off the furnace and hot water heater to do so. The smell was definitely coming from the manifold although I was the only one who could smell it.

Larry Weingarten

Hi, Did they use sniffers to look for leaks, or just the soap bubble test? Sniffers can be very sensitive. The tool would look something like this:

Yours, Larry

LINDON

They both used sniffers and soap and were thorough, especially the contractor. I have the Y201 propane and natural gas leak detector. It lights up with one light when I put it right at the fittings but does not alarm. I noticed that the contractor's sniffer went from 0 to 1 when he put it right at the fittings. He said it does not measure in ppm but I forget what it does measure. He said it was probably detecting the soap. When I put my nose right at the fittings, I could smell gas but the contractor said he could smell pipe dope. I can also smell gas off and on a few feet away. I doubt that is pipe dope. I'm assuming a tight test is the same thing as a dial or pressure test.

Larry Weingarten

Hi, Maybe when things warm up a bit and you can isolate the appliances, you could do your own pressure test. But let it sit under pressure for a longish time, like 24 hours, and see what happens. If the gauge stays put, maybe it's a smelly floor drain or burst can of sauerkraut!

Yours, Larry

EBEBRATT-Ed

Sounds like your not in danger. I would disconnect the meter and the two appliances and plug the connections and pressure test to a higher pressure. The leak is probably very small

Mad Dog_2

First, I'm not a fan of CSST, in general because its SO easy for someone to drive a screw or nail through it hanging a picture or shelf down the line on a wall.  The Manufactures and gas codes call for sleeved  protection. When passing through such areas of the building but it is often ignored or missed.  Try driving a drywall screw in to a schedule 40 black gas pipe..the screw will snap first...I like that.  That being said,  I have one 1" section that goes from basement 3 feet up behind the Heavy Viking type commercial stove. I did this for greater volume AND so I could quickly and easily kill the gas to the beast in an emergency from easilty accessible basement  gas cock because you ain't pulling that 350 pound beast out THAT fast 
In a dire gas leak emergency.  

Sniffers, especially ones the gas utilities  use are ultra sensitive.  Make sure the soap you are using bubbles up easily. I prefer hot Joy liquid and water shook up good.  Timmie and others are right about an isolating gas test. 

Don't doubt yourself,  there likely IS a small gas leak you are smelling.  Don't give up. Mad Dog.  

heathead

Is their a Bonding wire hooked up to that gas line? I don't see it in the few pictures, doesn't mean it's not there.

LINDON

heathead said:

Is their a Bonding wire hooked up to that gas line? I don't see it in the few pictures, doesn't mean it's not there.

I don't believe it is bonded. I found info on the internet that says the Ontario Electrical Safety Authority does not require CSST to be bonded but it is dated 2019.

ChrisJ

Lighting can only burn a hole on CSST if it's south of the falls.

LINDON

Thanks everyone for your help. I think I will wait until the heating season is over and get someone in to fully inspect the installation and do a 24 hour test as suggested (or I might try it myself). In the meantime, I will keep my eye (nose) on things and call the gas company to come back if it gets worse.

Tim McElwain

Lindon give me a call at 401-437-0557. An old gas man!

mattmia2

Take a soap solution and drop it on the suspect fitting and make sure it stays in a little bead in the joint between the pipe and the fitting and look very carefully for a bubble that grows very slowly. It will be a bubble that you can watch getting bigger over a minute or so. Putting it on with a small paint brush or an acid brush is an easy way to get it to sit in the joint.

Be sure to rinse the soap off after you're done or it will corrode the black iron.

mattmia2

Mad Dog_2 said:

I have one 1" section that goes from basement 3 feet up behind the Heavy Viking type commercial stove. I did this for greater volume AND so I could quickly and easily kill the gas to the beast in an emergency from easilty accessible basement  gas cock because you ain't pulling that 350 pound beast out THAT fast 
In a dire gas leak emergency.

I probably would bring it up in the cabinet next to it so you can access the shutoff in the cabinet.

Mad Dog_2 said:

Don't doubt yourself,  there likely IS a small gas leak you are smelling.  Don't give up. Mad Dog.  

I ended up replacing a collection of unions and valves that made the bend to my range because I could smell a leak but could never find it.

LINDON

ChrisJ said:

Lighting can only burn a hole on CSST if it's south of the falls.

Actually I live in southwestern Ontario which is south of the falls, so I guess I'm in trouble.

heathead

Lindon,

Tim is an expert. That offer he has made is very generous of him, call him. He has trained many professionals.

Good luck.

LINDON

heathead said:

Lindon,

Tim is an expert. That offer he has made is very generous of him, call him. He has trained many professionals.

Good luck.

I did. He was very helpful. Thanks.

Tim McElwain

It was good talking to you I wish you well in finding the leak!

Mad Dog_2

I thought of putting it in the cabinet but it has a pull out drawer and loaded with big pots and pans - not something you want to be struggling with in an emergency. Easier to run underneath and reach up and off it goes.  I'm glad I didn't put it there 20 years later that pull our drawer gets jammed up all the time with pots that fall behind eachother and lock up.  Mad Dog

Mad Dog_2

There's always the option of doing it the way the Deadman have done since the mid 1800s on gas piping..tried and true black screw pipe.   It wouldn't be as invasive a bypass surgery as you would think.  Most work is in the basement.   Mad Dog 🐕 

SteveMac

Shut off gas to the meter. Disconnect the union on the house piping at the meter outlet. Install a tee with an inches of water column gauge and pressurize it to 14” of water column. If it holds for 10 minutes there is no leak period. At 14”of water column you will do no harm to the appliance gas control valves. I use this method all the time. Actually finding the leak after that is a little more complicated, but at least you’ll know whether there is an actual leak.