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Gorton air vent quality

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24

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  • Waher
    Waher Member Posts: 251
    edited February 2023
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    Unfortunately I was wrong about the float just being stuck on the second defective one, it also has the float not properly pinned into the bi-metallic strip.

    I'm wondering if shipping them in the cold causes the strip to contract enough that bumping along in a delivery truck makes the float pin wander out of the slot.

    Look how different the slot location is versus the first photo I posted. Shouldn't the bi-metallic strips be consistently mounted and dilled in the same place? Seems like a major manufacturing tolerance or lack of QC.


    SupplyHouse is refusing to send me a 4th one. They told me to complete the return, wait for a refund to clear, and make a new order entirely.
  • Long Beach Ed
    Long Beach Ed Member Posts: 1,203
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    Call Gorton. If it's a problem with shipping in the cold you aren't the only one, and they will know about it. They're good people and they wont mess around with you. I think the valves are just being mishandled somewhere in shipping.
    Mad Dog_2
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 5,702
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    Waher said:
    I'm irate. The THIRD replacement SuppyHouse sent is defective. The float pin isn't seated in the bi-metallic strip.
    Good job finding the failure. My #1 had this exact problem. I discovered it by applying heat and opening it. Mine seemed to get thrown against a brick wall or something. 
    NJ Steam Homeowner. See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el
  • nde
    nde Member Posts: 86
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    Try the hot water to cold water I mentioned earlier. This will shrink/flex the strip a few times and combined with shaking may reset the pin. If the cold water seals the float then it has the backwards strip and will never work. It could also have the pin broken as noted in that steamhead video, I guess from rough. handling. That supplier once sent me a "new" vent with pipe dope on threads so I suspect they toss some returns back into the inventory!
    Long Beach EdWaherexqheat
  • Waher
    Waher Member Posts: 251
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    4th time was a charm. Opened the UPS box to the familiar rattle <3:) .
    Returned the defective one to SupplyHouse.
  • gerry gill
    gerry gill Member Posts: 3,078
    edited February 2023
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    There was a time when I loved Gorton vents. After all, I was a serious proponent of fast venting. But because of poor quality, I have gone back to Hoffman, even though they are slower vents, because they actually work. It’s sad, but it’s life. I have had tremendous business relationships with supplyhouse.com. As far as them handling any issues. I probably get 50% of my stock from them now.
    gwgillplumbingandheating.com
    Serving Cleveland's eastern suburbs from Cleveland Heights down to Cuyahoga Falls.

    ChrisJMad Dog_2
  • Waher
    Waher Member Posts: 251
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    Another day another dud from SupplyHouse. The float pin isn't seated on the bimetallic strip. :s
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,672
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    @Long Beach Ed

    I don't know.....
    I know what quality is and I'm not seeing it.


    Years ago I bought tons of Gorton's from supply house and never had a bad one.  What gives?
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • BobC
    BobC Member Posts: 5,478
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    Somebody let one of the bean counters in the hen house and to them the only thing that counts is number of units shipped. I was in manufacturing for 30+ years, bean counters were never taught that one returned vent negates 10 shipped vents
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
    reggi
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,672
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    BobC said:

    Somebody let one of the bean counters in the hen house and to them the only thing that counts is number of units shipped. I was in manufacturing for 30+ years, bean counters were never taught that one returned vent negates 10 shipped vents


    It's a shame.
    So many times I've seen a company with a great product reduce quality because sales are a little low. Next, sales drop more due to the lower quality so they reduce quality more. Next thing you know the product is gone. This is everything from food to tools.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Waher
    Waher Member Posts: 251
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    At this point I have needed to return 50% of the No.2s I've ordered for replacements. I hate to think of the people that install the vents unaware they received a non-functional one.

    I don't know if this is an assembly issue on Gorton's end, UPS mishandling, or if Supply House had a forklift/pallet jack manage manage to drop an entire shipment at one of their warehouses causing damage or what. If the design hadn't been around forever I'd suggest Gorton come up with way of securing the pin on the floats to not wander out of the bimetallic strip prior to the vents being installed vertically.

    I have not had this issue with Gorton No.1s, No.4s, No.5s.
  • Long Beach Ed
    Long Beach Ed Member Posts: 1,203
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    I never got a bad one, but I stopped dealing with mail-order supply houses years ago. Why not talk to Gorton and see what they think? Nice people; small family business with domestic manufacturing.
    GordoCLambMad Dog_2delta T
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,672
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    I never got a bad one, but I stopped dealing with mail-order supply houses years ago. Why not talk to Gorton and see what they think? Nice people; small family business with domestic manufacturing.

    I've ordered tens of thousands of dollars worth from Supplyhouse.com and have no complaints about them really.

    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    exqheat
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 5,702
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    I never got a bad one, but I stopped dealing with mail-order supply houses years ago. Why not talk to Gorton and see what they think? Nice people; small family business with domestic manufacturing.

    Do they give plant tours? Maybe we can help them with this issue :joy:
    NJ Steam Homeowner. See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el
    CLamb
  • Mike_Sheppard
    Mike_Sheppard Member Posts: 696
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    Wish I didn’t see this post 😅

    I have 10 #2s on will-call at a supply house I’m picking up next week. Crossing my fingers they all work…
    Never stop learning.
    Mad Dog_2
  • Waher
    Waher Member Posts: 251
    edited February 2023
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    I looked through the UPS tracking info this morning:
    Monroe Township, NJ is the warehouse I've been getting the duds No.2s from.
    The vents I've received that work all have shipped from Columbus, OH.
  • BobC
    BobC Member Posts: 5,478
    edited February 2023
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    Gorton should be made aware of the problem they are having at their Township, NJ plant so they can fix it before they go out of business

    I just sent them the link for this thread, I hope they realize how serious a problem this is
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
    CLambMad Dog_2
  • BobC
    BobC Member Posts: 5,478
    edited February 2023
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    I just got this reply from Gorton -


    Thank you Bob,
    I too am a member of heatinghelp.com. Both shipments are from the same company, just different branches. I am aware of the #2 Shipping problem.
    Shipping from here to there warehouse and then on to the home owner has been tough on the #2. If they get handled poorly they tend to jump off there floats. Still trying to find an effective shipping method that would eliminate this. Thanks Again, and we apologize for the inconvenience. - Ken

    It sounds like it's a shipping problem from the NJ plant but in any case they are working ion it and hopefully will solve the problem soon.

    Bob
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
    Erin Holohan HaskellMad Dog_2
  • dabrakeman
    dabrakeman Member Posts: 552
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    A plastic molded shipping insert that screwed onto the 1/2" pipe fitting and had a hollow cone that put a light preload on the bimetal strip might solve the problem.
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 5,702
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    Hard to say where the problem is, but in my case it appeared to be between supplyhouse and my house. I had a #1 with this exact issue. It was shipped in a soft pack and the vent had a dent on it that looked like it was thrown against a wall.

    The replacement was shipped from supplyhouse in a small box and was fine.
    NJ Steam Homeowner. See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,672
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    BobC said:

    I just got this reply from Gorton -


    Thank you Bob,

    I too am a member of heatinghelp.com. Both shipments are from the same company, just different branches. I am aware of the #2 Shipping problem.

    Shipping from here to there warehouse and then on to the home owner has been tough on the #2. If they get handled poorly they tend to jump off there floats. Still trying to find an effective shipping method that would eliminate this. Thanks Again, and we apologize for the inconvenience. - Ken

    It sounds like it's a shipping problem from the NJ plant but in any case they are working ion it and hopefully will solve the problem soon.

    Bob

    I really wish Ken had posted this here.
    Sometimes things are hard to ship, it's just the way it is, and I am always impressed when a company stands up and says what's going on and that they're trying to correct it.

    It's much better than the classic "Oh, that's weird we've never seen that before" which is a card many seem to play.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    dabrakemanBobC
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,061
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    I had 3 with out the rattle and would not seal when held upside down. Supply house replaced without question.

    Maybe a longer pin??
  • Waher
    Waher Member Posts: 251
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    If cost were no object, I'd say change the shell and one of the face plates so that they screw together like a jar lid rather than being soldered so that the innards could be serviced. A longer pin or screwed on shipping protector as described above may be a cheaper solution that doesn't require retooling or patents.
    exqheat
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 5,702
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    Patents are never required :sweat_smile:
    NJ Steam Homeowner. See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el
    ChrisJ
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,672
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    Patents are never required :sweat_smile:

    Some intentionally avoid getting patents.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    ethicalpaul
  • BobC
    BobC Member Posts: 5,478
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    I remember have discussions about the feasibility of the company patenting some some circuit designs we came up with. he said that it was difficult to patent a circuit design because changing almost anything could be seen as a valid new design. Also why point your competitors in the right direction.
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
    ethicalpaulexqheat
  • Waher
    Waher Member Posts: 251
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    Sigh :s I just want a working No.2 delivered to my door since no local stores carry them... is that too much to ask for?



  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 5,702
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    I'd give it many "smacks" to see if I could get the pin to bounce back into the hole. Try smacking it in the direction opposite that the pin is pointing to.
    NJ Steam Homeowner. See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el
  • Waher
    Waher Member Posts: 251
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    I'd give it many "smacks" to see if I could get the pin to bounce back into the hole. Try smacking it in the direction opposite that the pin is pointing to.

    I tried that to no avail.

    Bugs the Hell out of me because the first two I ordered worked fine and now only one of the last five I've had shipped to me have arrived in working condition.

    I just want to be able finish maximizing my 3/4" antler by swapping out the Vent-Rite #35 on it with a proper No.2 :( before heating season is over.

    Mad Dog_2
  • Waher
    Waher Member Posts: 251
    edited February 2023
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    SupplyHouse managed to get me a replacement No.2 in a single day from the warehouse in NJ. As the UPS man handed me the box I could hear the wonderous tell-tale cowbell. :*

    One oddity was that when I took the antler down it dripped out some jet black water. I had thoroughly washed out all the fittings with Dawn dish detergent before I assembled them, so I was surprised to see anything black. Once the water evaporated off the floor it didn't leave a noticeable residue or odor. If I drain the wet return the water runs clear for 30 seconds before it turns to hot chocolate, no black.
  • neilc
    neilc Member Posts: 2,703
    edited February 2023
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    hard to say from the picture if that antler is pitched or not,
    add another 90 to the riser 90, turn the 1st left or right, then the 2nd just slightly up to give true pitch,

    even then, there's a small pocket in each vent tee between the nipples,

    how much condensate was there?
    less than a 1/2 oz?
    known to beat dead horses
  • Waher
    Waher Member Posts: 251
    edited February 2023
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    I added a clevis hanger to keep the pipe from sagging and give it support so it won't fall if I ever have to undo the union.
    neilc said:

    hard to say from the picture if that antler is pitched or not

    neilc said:

    how much condensate was there? less than a 1/2 oz?

    I'm not sure, it certainly wasn't enough to fill a mouthwash cup. All of it was jet black which after reading some more seems like it might be the equivalent of "boiler ink" which is deoxygenated water?
  • neilc
    neilc Member Posts: 2,703
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    actually, that antler is oxygen rich after every heating cycle,
    known to beat dead horses
  • Waher
    Waher Member Posts: 251
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    neilc said:

    actually, that antler is oxygen rich after every heating cycle,

    Any idea what the black stuff is then? Residual black iron oxide that didn't wash off with dish detergent?
  • neilc
    neilc Member Posts: 2,703
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    still water, swamp water, black water,
    I think you're overthinking this
    known to beat dead horses
    gfrbrookline
  • ARobertson13
    ARobertson13 Member Posts: 28
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    I am an engineer who worked in the defense industry and have QA / QC experience. Last November I purchased a number of Gorton #1 and #2 vents to do fast venting in my Coop with permission from my fellow board members. There was a high Failure rate. I cut open a #2 vent [Not heat because it might damage element] and this is what I discovered. The reason the vent did not close was the curved bimetal strip had poor placement. No matter how much heat was applied to it the vent would not close. Only when
    the bimetal strip was removed altered [bent] and placed back along with the float, would the vent close
    when heated to 160F or greater. Also, if the bimetal strip is in it's correct position, there is no way that
    mishandling could shake the float out of that pin. I did some testing with other vents such as MOM Jacobson, Hoffman and Ventrite and discovered that many of these vents fail to close and the residents
    did no realize it. They thought that is the way things should sound. I have 81 risers and radiators in my
    Coop. I will go over my test results in the future.
    Erin Holohan Haskelldelta Texqheat
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 16,835
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    The folks at Gorton would love to know about this. Call them.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
    CLambethicalpauldelta T
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 5,702
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    This was definitely a thing. I ordered a #1 about a year ago that had the same problem. I opened it up by melting the solder and found exactly what you describe. 

    It did have a dent on it but I think you’d have to throw it against the wall to dislodge the pin in this way.

    The replacement was fine. 

    I wouldn’t call condensate “oxygen rich” just because it has touched air.

    water from a municipality is often hyper oxygenated for better taste, and once it boils it’s going to be oxygen poor
    NJ Steam Homeowner. See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 6,924
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    Aside from two #2s that came dented and rendered it inoperable 5 or6 years ago, I have not had ANY problems with ANY of the Gorton line.  Ken Kunz is a complete gentleman.  Mad Dog 🐕 
  • dko
    dko Member Posts: 593
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    It's nearly impossible for the float pin to become dislodged in shipping. Has to be something else..
    After having played football with a few #2s with my guys who can't catch on concrete, I can attest to the fact the that a properly built gorton #2 will not have the pin dislodged during shipping no matter how the UPS guys throw it. Even if dropped from a height on a pallet in a warehouse.
    Mad Dog_2
This discussion has been closed.