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Boiler Steam heat short cycles

coolfx35
coolfx35 Member Posts: 77
edited November 22 in Strictly Steam
Hello,

Do you know what the issue is with this?

https://youtube.com/shorts/_BdPycuxvc4

This only happens in the morning time, I kind of think it's hitting the pressure max, then it cycles .

night time i set temp to 65, but in the morning I set it to 68, and it could never go there.. and this problem occurs.

Thanks for you advice.

Comments

  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 19,954
    Well that's kind of short on information. It's more likely to be the pressuretrol limiting -- but if it is, it's badly out of proper adjustment. Could use some pictures of the boiler and its piping, and the controls...
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 6,655
    Looks like it is having trouble proving flame. Dirty flame rod, clean it with something like a piece of paper. Bad ground path between the ignition control and the burner. Sense wire chaffed and shorting to the frame of the boiler somewhere. Bad or corroded connections on the sense wire.
    JUGHNE
  • coolfx35
    coolfx35 Member Posts: 77
    don't think it's the flame because when the system is cold, I can run it without an issues. it's only when the system is already warm.

    I think Jamie saying the pressuretrol limiting might be more like it. the system was put in 3 years ago. and can't remember this was an issue until this year. could it be the pigtail is stuffed?
  • coolfx35
    coolfx35 Member Posts: 77
    Also any problem if I increase the pressuretrol setting a little bit?


  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 19,954
    Pressuretrol is already set as high as you want it. More likely you have inadequate venting or, even more likely, if the problem is mostly once the system is well warmed up -- say coming out of a setback or something like that -- the boiler is simply too big for the system. Not much fix to that.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • coolfx35
    coolfx35 Member Posts: 77
    edited November 22
    Yes, I think you are on point, the boiler might be too big for the house.

    before the replacement of my boiler, I remember the old unit had it set to 2.5 What's the downside to do something like that? So that the boiler can run a little longer to avoid cycling.

    I have been playing with the temperature settings. So if I set it to 68 all day and all night, the problem just go away? I will try it this week.

    this could be my solution?

  • coolfx35
    coolfx35 Member Posts: 77
    Hi Jamie, do I need to bother with cleaning the pigtail at all? could that contribute to my issues as well, I haven't cleaned it for 3 years.
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 6,655
    In that 5 seconds the flame is on it isnt changing the pressure appreciably.
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 6,655
    @Jamie Hall watch the video.
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 19,954
    Yes, sir. Right away, sir.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 6,655
    The only thing other than the ignition control that could react that fast is if there is a bad connection or a bad contact somewhere. I guess an electronic low water cutout that is fouled could do this. You could jumper the safety chain for 30 seconds or so while it is happening to see if it stays lit continuously to rule out things other than the ignition control.

    Do not leave it like that, and only do it while you are watching it.
  • coolfx35
    coolfx35 Member Posts: 77
    @mattmia2 interesting observation, please note i don't have any issues during day time to evening. only morning.
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 3,910
    > before the replacement of my boiler, I remember the old unit had it set to 2.5 What's the downside to do something like that? So that the boiler can run a little longer to avoid cycling.

    Don't do it, don't even think it. Ask yourself: Why do you want your boiler to be running when the system has as much steam as it can consume?

    The pigtail is good to check annually, but if it's blocked, it will let the boiler run too long building up too much pressure, it won't cut out early from that. I doubt the pigtail is your main concern here. I like MattMia's suggestions.
    1 pipe Peerless 63-03L in Cedar Grove, NJ, coal > oil > NG
  • coolfx35
    coolfx35 Member Posts: 77
    PSEG replaced this.. hopefully that solves my issue.


  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 3,910
    It's one possible cause! Did it work after they replaced it?
    1 pipe Peerless 63-03L in Cedar Grove, NJ, coal > oil > NG
  • retiredguy
    retiredguy Member Posts: 658
    edited November 23
    Did you check to see if the water line is bouncing when steam production starts and are you sure that the returns aren't blocked or restricted. Remember, a cold system needs a lot of steam for the pick-up load.

    By the way, could you show us a picture or 2 of the near boiler piping?
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 3,910
    > Remember, a cold system needs a lot of steam for the pick-up load.

    Regardless of how much it needs, the boiler isn't aware of that...how would that make his fire shut down?
    1 pipe Peerless 63-03L in Cedar Grove, NJ, coal > oil > NG
  • retiredguy
    retiredguy Member Posts: 658
    edited November 24
    @ ethicalpaul; I guess that I didn't write that very well. Let me re-phrase, A cold system that comes on in the morning after a night setback will need a lot more steam supply and a longer run time than a hot system that is cycling just to maintain building temperature. If, the near boiler piping is wrong, the boiler is being overfired, or the boiler's water is dirty and needs skimmed, you could be making wet steam causing the boiler to rapidly cycle on the low water cut-off control.
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 3,910
    Gotcha. Yeah this case seems to be connected to the morning recovery, and yet that speedy repeated cut out and cut in doesn't seem like it could be due to pressure or water level--it's too fast. But maybe the long runtime is causing some heat-related failure like mattmia said
    1 pipe Peerless 63-03L in Cedar Grove, NJ, coal > oil > NG
  • pedmec
    pedmec Member Posts: 655
    I would look at the water line in the boiler. The cold start takes a while for the boiler to try and produce steam which would allow it to run longer. Eventually its making steam and now the water line is all over the place. You also said it was a 3 year old boiler and maybe its wasn't skimmed properly. Water in boiler could be bad