How long should a boiler take?

DaveB1972

You can go look at and generate the parts list before the meeting. Or have a well stocked install truck that carries enough fittings and pipe (and a threader) to every job. 

When i started in the business installers (I was in service) would get bonuses to finish a job early (furnaces 2 a day) but their parts were laid out for them (including metal transitions from our internal fab shop). When they rushed service got to pick up the slack (fix all the mistakes) and they never got penalized. That was the early days of Service Experts. 

I see them still doing steam boilers using copper steam piping. Terrible install ethics. Get it heating, collect check, run like ****, never return. 

Far too many **** in the field that will work for peanuts. 

Dougo

Your boss is unrealistic. Especially if it’s steam. A hot water boiler may be, but plan on being there late. If it’s minus 10 out and they have to have heat, then get the coffee pot ready and prepare to be there till midnight!! 

bhiggins

Why the heck do they need a meeting everyday?
Plus, you are doing different boilers almost every time. That eats up your time efficiency.

PatMacDonnell

One day residential steam is possible when the four guys know every move before it's made.
All jobs have been seen and materials ordered prior to arrival.
Three men demo starting at 7:30, the new boiler is on blocks and no one looks up until it's done.
One man vacuums the radiators, taps and replaces all vents, adjusts pitch if needed and installs a thermostat. This is usually the same guy who will return later in the day to skim the boiler
We are privileged to do this most every day and try to alternate jobs whenever possible.

MacG

I've seen your bosses work and it took me three times as long to correct the near boiler piping that only pushed water instead of steam along with the failed venting. A BIG FAT NO!
You should challenge your boss off to an install contest that is graded on performance.

Labenaqui

We install our patented, shop-tooled & prebuilt, hard-piped W/M UO w/Delta-T Distribution Appliance in hours.
Roll it in, stand it up and stretch the pipes & wires ..... done.
Over 160,000 hours of field operating hours with no system service incidents ..... none!

Lance

It depends on how long it takes to build anything. see attachment

Danny_Jr

If you are looking for a good hourly wage and willing to move West about 125 miles (Kalamazoo) call me. I grew up in Detroit and am part of a 5 generation tradition of steam fitters. 269.217.0453

robertfromnj

"I'm a new boiler installer." With experience, you will see the idiocy of a time standard for a boiler install. If you've already replaced four of the same model currently installed in the same house design and age, sure, you can say "two days." It's not up to you to meet the time built into your employer's bid. When you own your own truck, then you can take the risk of a fixed-price install.

Even as a newbie you can guess the time for boiler placement. Do you have to pour a foundation? That's only a couple of hours, but it requires a trip and a day. Wiring? Simple. Unless you have multiple zones and no manual for the zone controller. Chimney? Simple. Unless the new install requires a shut-off. Fresh water feed? Simple. Unless it turns out the house valve is leaky. Copper piping? Simple. Steel? Good luck getting forty-year-old joints apart, expecting new pipe to thread without some magic. Do you carry cutting and threading equipment for every size in the header? Does your truck have a sufficient supply of fittings?

If it's a steam system, I guarantee there will be at least one failed vent in the system, one that contributed to boiler failure. You're going to have to fire up the new boiler and find it. Otherwise, there will be a call back or an unhappy customer after three seasons. Maybe your boss doesn't care. That's not the guy I want to work for. I want to be proud when I leave a job.

Jackmartin

Hey youngster ,I think you have regressed to the 19th century. The idea of slavery went out before the turn of the 20 th century surely you understand that. I think you should be looking for another job, anyone who expects this kind of performance crap is out for the mighty dollar and the devil take you. Installation of a boiler a day ,yes its possible, if EVERYTHING goes exactly to plan, I have been doing this for 46 years and I can never remember a job that did not put up a fight somewhere. In the event your educated boss wants this kind of stupid speed he should do the following: take you down ,preferably the week before ,he then goes over the job and you discuss what will be needed which he orders and has on site.  Then the demolition guys take out the boiler and all associated piping you have previously agreed on. Then working with you should be a sheet metal contractor to install a new B vent and cap you have nothing to do with it. The fact you have two helpers, so what, if they are not at least third year apprentices what use are they???? The other thing you did not mention is asbestos, it has been my experience old heating is covered in the stuff, is he having it removed and washed down before you arrive? The problem is,  being this kind of gimme boss, he would expect you to remove it yourself, bad move ,I have lost too many friends to mesothelioma they were of the impression it was harmless, dead is for a very long time kid. I wonder if you are being forced at this ridiculous pace how good a job can you do? I want the install to be something I am proud of not something I had to throw together to meet some timeline. The other thing that hits me, winter at least in Canada is here, he wants you to work half the night because the customers house is going to freezeup? This person has never used a pipe wrench in his life I would suggest you are dealing with a life long desk jockey. The fact he has to have a meeting every morning means only one thing, he is a control freak that loves the sound of his own voice, you hire people you can trust and tell them to use their skills you don't waste talent preaching at them every morning ,I think this person has been drinking at the Elon Musk watering hole too long. Get a job where you are going to be treated like a thinking professional.
Cheers Jack

Charlie from wmass

Well a day is 24 hours right ? LMAO 

136lin

Retired now.
Boiler installs took place after I looked at the job, made a possible material list and then assembled the needed material including proper sized fittings and nipple trays. All material including some extra "stuff" was laid out in milk crates or boxes ready to be loaded the day of the install.

Usually the day before the install I, or someone else, would go and disconnect (cut out) all piping, wiring, and venting. By that time the boiler would have been delivered and the delivery people would have hauled the old boiler out of the basement, set the new in place, removed the crate and all other packaging from the premises.

When the installers came in the next morning, with the previously accumulated material, they could go right to work without delay. Usually they would be done that day. Some of the timing would have to change depending on the weather and/or customer availability.

We went to outside contractors (piano movers or safe movers) years ago when I realized how silly it was for us to wait for the supplier to deliver the boiler in the morning (?), struggle to get it into the basement, and remove the old from the basement. Beside the safety issue of having plumbers moving the 700-800 pound boiler down stairs and around landings, it would already be close to noon and we had a "pooped" crew.

Now we have professionals handling the heavy work while the plumbers do what they know, with a fresh start in the morning and all material at hand. Also, I always figured that it was inefficient to pay plumbers wages to do "bull"work when the movers would give me a flat price for their work.
And, especially for a small shop, this allowed the plumbers the opportunity to be doing other profitable work while the boiler install was being set up by others.

Sure it increased my cost of the job, but the advantages outweighed the increased cost and there should be enough money in a boiler replacement to absorb the cost. If not, you are selling them too cheaply. We also used a similar process for commercial heaters, letting others handle the big stuff while we just did the disconnection and the install. Eventually the suppliers began offering delivery into the basement and hauling out the old heater for a nominal charge. That was great!

I also went to using long nipples and cut pipe on boiler installs so that we were not cutting and threading pipe on the job.With a little pre-planning and thoughtfulness, using pipe that was already threaded saved a lot of time. Again, it may cost a bit more, but what is a man's time worth to cut and thread pipe, plus the cost of the pipe and setting up and tearing down the pipe machine? Even using a Rigid 700 has a cost disadvantage.

Working the way the OP is working will make a young man into a bent over old man real soon.

Charlie from wmass

Plumbers who can't mobe boiler I don't get it. Hoe can you tighte6 the pipes or do the rest of the work? I guess I just am archaic. 

JohnNY

Most of our steam boilers or single zone hot water boilers are completed in a single 10-ish hour day with a 3 or 4-man crew, subcontracted removal team, and electrical contractor.

Charlie from wmass

So 30 to 48 man hours not including wiring or removal. And the original posters boss is expecting five of these in a week from a three-man crew. Interesting idea. We also wonder why so many companies end up doing bad installations. 

JohnNY

Charlie from wmass said:

So 30 to 48 man hours not including wiring or removal. And the original posters boss is expecting five of these in a week from a three-man crew. Interesting idea. We also wonder why so many companies end up doing bad installations. 

You know what though? The productivity of a regular boiler crew, a team of guys who do nothing but boiler installs for weeks or months at a time, in a well stocked truck with some pre-cut pieces, will surprise you.

Charlie from wmass

Not really surprise me

 The pre cut pieces are still man hours. And don't get me started on what is good stock anymore. Everything thing is plan c, d, or e because the just sold the last two of whatever part it is that you need this morning or yesterday afternoon. 

The Steam Whisperer

We are in about the same boat as John. We do them a little quicker maybe, but I do a complete isometric piping diagram and floor plan so all the piping can be figured and precut by our supplier, so there is usually only a few adjustments on the job. We have standardized the near boiler piping for all of the regular model installs.... we just need to figure out the header to the steam mains and the returns to the Hartford. We also use copper on our returns.
Of course this year we are installing whatever we can get, so lots more prep time and more on the job using models we haven't installed before.

Pranjilovic

This take me 2 weeks to pipe 2 boilers after put them on pad, just piping, 12 story building.

Pranjilovic

Hvac_artisan

Never seen it done that fast. But I was never allowed to work with two helpers. I was lucky if I had one but when your Sent out blind, no job can be completed in that short of time. maybe where you’re at all the parts are available but out here you never get everything that you need same day. That always just slows the process down more because you end up working backwards to try to meet in the middle for components that you don’t have at the start of the job I’ve never worked for high volume production shops, always smart, custom shops. Fortunately, I was allowed to have a lot of say in how I did the work at most of them, and look at the work ahead of time, that was always paid hourly and I’m sure my boss didn’t make a ton of money on me on every job, but he always knew that the customer will be happy and there would be callbacks that was more important to Him.

Pranjilovic

We just installed new burner in 4 hours

Chris_51

Just curious, where are you getting parts in the Detroit area?

I've been retrofitting my system with ECM pumps. It is tough to get part IMO.

mowgs

It would be demoralizing to try and meet those expectations. Especially if you’re running for parts, I know how agonizing that can be. If it’s a replacement boiler I usually get two days. Thats to tear the old out and install the new. We have most if not all the materials ready and we keep the shop stocked with fittings. So we have a fighting chance to get it done and even perform a combustion analyses when it’s done. Even then we still might work a little late.

Intplm.

Completeing

Pranjilovic said:

We just installed new burner in 4 hours

I'm liking those Weishaupt burners. Installed a few years ago on some Viessmann commercial boilers .

Are they gas oil or dual fuel?

Bohmann

Let me guess. The sales people are full commission,  so they beat the production out the replacement crews. How many systems could be greatly improved if the skilled people sold the solutions with upgrade options and cutout the seperate sales people.