Dual Thermostats - 1 system Pump/Zone

TerrS

@JakeCK This post never said that by ME.  It's always been about my upstairs not getting heat.  First we went down the insulation route and I just spent $$$$ on 35 bags on cellulose and spray foam along the rim joist.

Okay that helped. Now my first floor is still warmer than upstairs. So I should stop cooking also right? Because the oven is close to the dining room which keeps the thermostat happy. There are numerous other reasons besides the fireplace, why the boiler doesn't run. Hell 5 people playing cards in the dining room will keep the room at my 68 degrees.

Again I have my game plan. Spend the $1000 and have the 2nd call for heat when it needs it.

Jamie Hall

Look. I really don't care why you have different heating sources and heating loads in different parts of your house. There is one, and only one, solution which is to arrange the different parts of the house where you want to control the temperature independently as different zones, either with zone valves or zone pumps, and independent thermostats. End of story.

HeatStooges

Read through some of this, not sure if this was mentioned as some of the comments go off the rails sometimes, but a Honeywell T10 thermostat would do the trick. It comes with one additional remote sensor (as many as 20 can be added to one stat), but what you can do with this is prioritize what sensor is controlling the heat wirelessly. It seems to be the easiest solution to your problem without reinventing the wheel with all the rights and wrongs you had no control over. The only catch you'll have is if you have enough wires to wire it up. My solution there would be if you do not have enough, wire it in the basement near the boiler as it requires 24v (min 3 wires), and just put two remotes sensors for each floor (more if you want). Then control with the temp sensor on 1st or 2nd floor or even average if you are not burning a fire. This stat is also wifi capable.

https://www.honeywellhome.com/us/en/products/air/thermostats/wifi-thermostats/t10-pro-smart-thermostat-with-redlinkr-room-sensor-thx321wfs2001w-u/

TerrS

@heatstooges thank you. This is what I was looking for. I still, without zone valves have the possibility of over heating the downstairs but since I only keep my house at 68, if the upstairs is 68 and the downstairs is 70, etc that's not a real problem.

JakeCK

The insulation will pay for it's self over time, don't worry about that. 

And this is the first I've heard of your stove heating up the dinning room. Of course that is always a possibility. Old houses used to have swinging doors for a reason. But like my house and most other people's in this country, the kitchen is next to the dinning room and heat from it can spill into the dinning room. And my t-stat is in my dinning room too. It has never been enough of an issue for me to give it a second thought.

And the whole thing about people playing cards heating up the room so much... Well good luck. Last good Halloween party I had there were at least 30 people over. I had windows open while it was 40f outside. That is just how that works, no two ways around it.

ChrisJ

@JakeCK My stove and oven most certainly heat the kitchen, and I'll go as far as to say it heats the entire first floor up.

I've installed TRV's on both kitchen radiators and on one of the Livingroom radiators to deal with this issue and on Thanksgiving for example, it's a good chance no kitchen radiator will receive steam and the Livingroom one may be throttled.

These TRV's combined with four thermostat sensors allows the system to still maintain temperature on the 2nd floor during such conditions.

Sadly I do not know enough about HW or baseboard heat to know whether TRV's can be tied into such a system.

But yes, stoves and ovens can most certainly throw an entire house's balance out of whack if you enjoy cooking or eating home cooked food. I believe my stove and oven all things combined is capable of 70,000 btu/h, most of which you'd hope is delivered into the load, but we all know it's not.

pecmsg

All stoves will add some heat to a residence but you only run them for a short time. 

JakeCK

ChrisJ said:

@JakeCK My stove and oven most certainly heat the kitchen, and I'll go as far as to say it heats the entire first floor up. I've installed TRV's on both kitchen radiators and on one of the Livingroom radiators to deal with this issue and on Thanksgiving for example, it's a good chance no kitchen radiator will receive steam and the Livingroom one may be throttled. These TRV's combined with four thermostat sensors allows the system to still maintain temperature on the 2nd floor during such conditions. Sadly I do not know enough about HW or baseboard heat to know whether TRV's can be tied into such a system. But yes, stoves and ovens can most certainly throw an entire house's balance out of whack if you enjoy cooking or eating home cooked food. I believe my stove and oven all things combined is capable of 70,000 btu/h, most of which you'd hope is delivered into the load, but we all know it's not.

I should have been more clear. I know that they can in general. My kitchen can get quite warm during the holidays with all the activities and I avoid cooking when it is hot outside for example. I meant this is the first I've heard it brought up during this whole discussion. We were lead to believe this was an issue with uneven heating and using a second thermostat to resolve that issue.

That all said if her complaint is the upstairs getting a bit cooler while there is a lot of activity downstairs such as guests and cooking in the kitchen then... Idk what to say other than to stop making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Now excuse me, my oven beeped and is preheated.

TerrS

@jakeCK again I never said it was really uneven. Many others said out of balance then went down the dampers direction, and many other directions

My whole focus was the upstairs getting the heat required IF the activities downstairs, be it cooking, guests over, or maybe that pesky fireplace running.

This started as the dual thermostats but jumped into over heating the 1st floor, because of lack of flow control, to turn off the dampers on the 1st floor, etc

I never said i agreed with any of the side tracks. I just wanted to know, if it would work and possibly cause any boiler issues.

Meaning watch for short cycling, the pump might be to big and cause excessive water Velocity and cause pipe erosion from the inside.

So this is what I am addressing

ChrisJ

@TerrS
I think the Honeywell Prestige with 1 or more additional sensors is the best bet.,

HOWEVER...... I feel you also need a way to stop supplying heat to the first floor. Either zone valves, multiple pumps, TRVs, whatever.

KC_Jones

Keep in mind if you go down the road of a single thermostat with remote sensor, that won't convert to 2 zones later if you add that. You will need an individual thermostat for each zone, the remote sensor simply averages the 2 areas, but does not have the ability to control 2 zones. I seem to recall you mentioning scaling whatever you do now into a zoned system later. So for Chris's suggestion you would need 2 of the prestige and if you wanted remote sensors for those areas to be covered by that unit you could add them, but the remote sensor can not control a separate zone later.

Just want to make sure you are clear on this.

TerrS

@KC_Jones yes thanks. That option is still on the table, but because I think it's better to zone and only send heat only where needed. I am looking to do that right now, adding the 2nd t-stat

pecmsg

TerrS said:

@KC_Jones yes thanks. That option is still on the table, but because I think it's better to zone and only send heat only where needed. I am looking to do that right now, adding the 2nd t-stat

2nd stat and what?
Circulator, zone valve?

TerrS

pecmsg said:

@KC_Jones yes thanks. That option is still on the table, but because I think it's better to zone and only send heat only where needed. I am looking to do that right now, adding the 2nd t-stat

2nd stat and what? Circulator, zone valve?

Looks like 4 zone valves,  but hooked as 2 and 2. And swap the circulator with a taco 0015e ecm pump or 0018e. Not sure which yet

pedmec

install trv's on the first floor and have the thermostat control the second floor.

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Danfoss-013G8042-1-2-Straight-Thermostatic-Radiator-Valve-Double-Solder-Union?utm_source=google_ad&utm_medium=Shopping_tm&utm_campaign=Shopping_TM_New_users&gclid=CjwKCAiAjs2bBhACEiwALTBWZQsETaZJweLyqAfDYh6B3WtxYRTon4g3ogmC0cHF5d_cMfM-1EbmSxoCRvAQAvD_BwE

pedmec

Could remember if you had radiators on the first floor or baseboard. The one I sent was for baseboard but the have them for radiators too

TerrS

@pedmec well these are neat. But I wonder if they would work in my configuration. I have a one pipe system. So if I restrict flow, this would restrict flow the whole way downstream. This is why I love the buderus panel rads. I have the 2 I have setup as 35% into the rad and 65% by-pass.  They are just costly with valves/etc.

pecmsg

TerrS said:

@pedmec well these are neat. But I wonder if they would work in my configuration. I have a one pipe system. So if I restrict flow, this would restrict flow the whole way downstream. This is why I love the buderus panel rads. I have the 2 I have setup as 35% into the rad and 65% by-pass.  They are just costly with valves/etc.

how are you planing on 4 zone valves on a 1 pipe system?

TerrS

So off my 1-1/4 manifold I have 4 pipes which equate to 4 zones. Water feeds each baseboard fin in series and returns. So my zone valves will be placed on each of the 4 pipes on the return side. The wiring will be setup as 2 pipes one t-stat and 2 pipes the other t-stat