New drop header, disappearing water

ethicalpaul

Yes, without a moment's hesitation I would buy a Peerless again. The only other brand I would consider would be a WM or its lower-tier stable-mate Williamson. Maybe *maybe* if I had to have oil I might pick a megasteam but frankly Burnham scares the heck out me.

panick007

New boiler was delivered today, so, depending on how long it takes to get it down the basement steps (similar to the set-up @ethicalpaul has) I'll either do it tomorrow or Friday. Here's a question. The old boiler has an 8" flue, new Peerless has 7" with a 6" reducer. @ethicalpaul I see you went 6", and I'm curious if there is any advantage or disadvantage to 6" or 7"?

pedmec

@ethicalpaul Burnham scares me so much that i convert my burnham independence to forced hot water after 9 years of steam. After 10 years plus you know your getting a hole above the water line. Replaced too many of them after 10 and wasn't taking a chance while the cast iron is not leaking.

ethicalpaul

panick007 said:

New boiler was delivered today, so, depending on how long it takes to get it down the basement steps (similar to the set-up @ethicalpaul has) I'll either do it tomorrow or Friday. Here's a question. The old boiler has an 8" flue, new Peerless has 7" with a 6" reducer. @ethicalpaul I see you went 6", and I'm curious if there is any advantage or disadvantage to 6" or 7"?

I'd go with what the manual says to use. Mine came with a reducer (I think to 5"?) from the factory so I used it. The inspector freaked out when he saw it (in his experience a reducer would never come from the factory and was only added by knuckleheads) but Peerless also sent a piece of paper saying the reducer was sent by them on purpose so he relented.

I think they maybe use the same exhaust hood for the L and the non-L models and maybe they send a reducer with the L models. Not sure but if they sent it I'd use it.

panick007

They did send it, I was curious because the manual states “Series 63 models are certified to Z21.13/CSA 4.9 “Gas Fired Low Pressure Steam and Hot Water Boilers” for use in USA with tapered reducers on the outlet of the vent damper. A tapered vent reducer is located in the draft hood carton for

Series 63 models.

Use reducer only where reduced vent connector size also meets ANSI Z223.1 / NFPA 54 and applicable provisions of local building codes. Factors that impact allowable vent connector diameter include vent connector type, lateral length, chimney type, chimney height, and chimney area.”

I have a large chimney with a stainless liner and it’s right at the location of the boiler and up high, so my vent pipe is nearly vertical. In other words, plenty of draft so I guess I’ll use the reducer. 

mattmia2

There is a section of rules in the code that allow you to take a guess at this. Ideally someone that understands combustion would figure it out.

ethicalpaul

Good eye, Paul. My situation is exactly as you describe so I guess I guessed right

panick007

Installation (mostly) complete! Got it up and running on Sunday afternoon. Set it up as delivered but I plan to make a few adjustments/additions to ease maintenance and monitor operation.

One big and pleasant surprise with this new boiler, which is smaller than the one it replaced, is the heat in the house is much more even. The only thing I changed is the boiler, no thermostat or radiator changes so far, but gone are the swings in temp we have always lived with. Previously it would start to feel chilly before the radiators heated up, now it seems like the radiators are always at least a little bit warm still when the thermostat calls for heat again. Last night my wife said something I never thought I would ever hear: "I think you can turn the heat down a degree". She has complained of being cold in this house for twenty years!

Here are some photos showing how I got the boiler to the basement (thanks @ethicalpaul for the ramp idea) and how I piped the drop header. No insulation yet but it's on the list. Opinions welcome and encouraged.








I would like to thank @KC_Jones @Jamie Hall @ethicalpaul and @mattmia2 for their input, and everyone else on the site who so generously share their knowledge and experiences, and especially @DanHolohan for writing the book that started me down this path and for this site, which helps to keep alive the knowledge of the dead men.

DanHolohan

You’re welcome! 

KC_Jones

panick007 said:

Installation (mostly) complete! Got it up and running on Sunday afternoon. Set it up as delivered but I plan to make a few adjustments/additions to ease maintenance and monitor operation.

One big and pleasant surprise with this new boiler, which is smaller than the one it replaced, is the heat in the house is much more even. The only thing I changed is the boiler, no thermostat or radiator changes so far, but gone are the swings in temp we have always lived with. Previously it would start to feel chilly before the radiators heated up, now it seems like the radiators are always at least a little bit warm still when the thermostat calls for heat again. Last night my wife said something I never thought I would ever hear: "I think you can turn the heat down a degree". She has complained of being cold in this house for twenty years!

Here are some photos showing how I got the boiler to the basement (thanks @ethicalpaul for the ramp idea) and how I piped the drop header. No insulation yet but it's on the list. Opinions welcome and encouraged.








I would like to thank @KC_Jones @Jamie Hall @ethicalpaul and @mattmia2 for their input, and everyone else on the site who so generously share their knowledge and experiences, and especially @DanHolohan for writing the book that started me down this path and for this site, which helps to keep alive the knowledge of the dead men.

You're Welcome!

I view my participation here as paying it forward due to all the help I received years ago.

mattmia2

Next get rid of the CSST.

Great job. If the thermostat is mechanical, if the new boiler's controls draw less less current than the old one, the cycle lengths will lengthen because the anticipator won't heat as much(or vise versa if it draws more current).

ethicalpaul

Fantastic! Those old school bulkhead stairs are a lifesaver

panick007

@mattmia2

It’s actually a clock thermostat, but I learned through trial and error that I’m better off at a constant temp 24/7, my fuel bill actually dropped when I quit the set-back.

I’ve seen many a disparaging comment on the cycleguards, and initially I didn’t understand how they work, thought there was a problem when it shut the system down a few times on that first firing, but aside from the frequent safety checks, why all the hate? Are they unreliable somehow or just different?

Should I buy a new probe for the McDonnell & Miller LWCO that was on the old boiler and use that instead. If yes, why? I’m trying to understand what’s bad about the Cyclegard as I have read some opinions that it’s the safest system.

ethicalpaul

Everyone hates the Cyclegard except for me and I think one other pro here. Yes it shuts down the system periodically but who cares unless you are sitting down there watching it after you just installed the boiler and you get impatient? (This has to be why so many pros hate it, there can be no other reason).

As you said, there is no safer way to verify the water level. A probe will sense the splashing water from boiling even if the water level is very low.

panick007

I wanted to share some autopsy photos of the old Utica boiler. I finally knocked it apart and hauled the pieces out of the basement. Boiler was installed 11 years ago with improperly sized and arranged header.


These first 2 shots I pulled out the burner tubes and looked up inside the fire box.




Pulled off the casing and saw that one section was leaking steam/water. The sealant between other sections was peeling away and I could see daylight between them looking from the right angle.











Knocked the leaking section apart, the push nipple was completely corroded away.





My new boiler is running great, I’m drafting a new thread about my system balancing experiences.

Hap_Hazzard

panick007 said:

I’ve seen many a disparaging comment on the cycleguards, and initially I didn’t understand how they work, thought there was a problem when it shut the system down a few times on that first firing, but aside from the frequent safety checks, why all the hate? Are they unreliable somehow or just different?

ethicalpaul said:

Everyone hates the Cyclegard except for me and I think one other pro here.

You forgot about me, Paul. Honestly, though, I might get a Safgard next time, because the intermittent level tests really aren't necessary. I wouldn't tolerate foaming in my boiler, so there's no need to check for it every 15 minutes.

I'm sure the intermittent level test is the reason for all the hate. Other than that it's just a good, reliable LWCO with probes that last forever. But, while the shutdowns take some getting used to, they don't do any harm, and they might prevent cycling on pressure in some cases.

One thing I do recommend is that you activate the "SmartCycle" feature if it isn't already. This ensures that the first intermittent level test doesn't happen until the first test interval after the boiler starts a cycle. See page 2 in your manual.