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Lead Wipe Long Island

LBPAHenry
LBPAHenry Member Posts: 1
Apparently Town of Hempstead still requires the antiquated lead wipe for their Master Plumber's practical. Does anyone know of anyone who teaches this in the Long Island, NY area?
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Comments

  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 4,954
    Do they provide the HazMat suites for the practical?
    Edward Young Retired HVAC Contractor & HYDRONICIAN Services first oil burner at age 16 P/T trainer for EH-CC.org
    pecmsgSuperTechZman
  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 3,556
    Do they provide the HazMat suites for the practical?
    With asbestos gloves and boots!
    EdTheHeaterManmattmia2
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 13,883
    Isn't it still required for cast iron work which is required in NYC?


    @Charlie from wmass can do lead.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Charlie from wmass
    Charlie from wmass Member Posts: 4,244
    @ChrisJ I can do let it know come but I never learned how to wipe a joint. I know my father was good at it and whenever I asked him to teach me he said it was a waste of time to practice as it was so easy to do. Over 30 years as a licensed plumber and I have never had to wipe a lead joint
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
    ethicalpaul
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 13,883
    @ChrisJ I can do let it know come but I never learned how to wipe a joint. I know my father was good at it and whenever I asked him to teach me he said it was a waste of time to practice as it was so easy to do. Over 30 years as a licensed plumber and I have never had to wipe a lead joint
    For anyone reading this..... It's gotta be voice to text ...... I don't think he's having a stroke
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    PC7060MikeAmannSuperTechrick in Alaska
  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 3,556
    ChrisJ said:
    Isn't it still required for cast iron work which is required in NYC?


    @Charlie from wmass can do lead.
    We used Fernco fittings. Lead joints are 40 , 50 years out. 
    Charlie from wmass
  • Charlie from wmass
    Charlie from wmass Member Posts: 4,244
    Fernco fittings are not allowed inside the building in Massachusetts. At least not yet they are trying to destroy the plumbing code in this state too.
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 13,127
    @Charlie from wmass

    I heard at my last update class that for the first time ever the plumbing board is no longer run by licensed plumbers. Destruction is well on it's way.
    CLamb
  • Charlie from wmass
    Charlie from wmass Member Posts: 4,244
    The plumbing board has always only had two licensed plumbers it also had two licensed gas fitters a master license and a journeyman license for each trade respectively so that we can keep track of both the interests of the business owner and interest of the person in the field.
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
  • Charlie from wmass
    Charlie from wmass Member Posts: 4,244
    Yes I often use voice to text. There's also an appointed member of the board that is not in the trades to have input from the general public. They are the consumer advocate of the board.
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
  • MikeAmann
    MikeAmann Member Posts: 682
    Sounds like another RACE TO THE BOTTOM.
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 7,171
    Someone still manufactures ci with a hub?
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 7,171
    I'd think learning would be enormously expensive. Lead sheet and tube aren't cheap. I think it would be fairly easy to do in a lab setting where you have good access. you have to remember that unlike solder which is alloyed to minimize the plastic region, lead has a large plastic region, so you heat it to where it is plastic but not molten and move it around. doing that on a bench isn't that hard. it would be a lot harder in some corner of a building.
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 7,171
    Look at videos of people doing bodywork with lead.
  • retiredguy
    retiredguy Member Posts: 683
    My grand father was a self employed master plumber who was born around 1895. He showed me how to do a lead joint in a cast iron hub. You need a stove (as he called it), a melting pot, a ladle, the lead, of course, some oakum, and an asbestos rope device. You put the male end into the hub, tap in just enough oakum, wrap the hub with the rope thing, and pour in the lead. looked easy, but I would not do it. Today, OSHA would probably fine you "out of existence" and instead of 1 plumber doing the work you would need a small army to meet all the safety requirements. Thank you for Fernco.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 13,883
    I'm amazed at the amount of people who are scared if it's something harder than glueing pvc together.


    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    mrhemi
  • realliveplumber
    realliveplumber Member Posts: 80
    I just poured a lead joint yesterday. Connecting a new shower drain to an existing cast iron tee. No big deal.

    The OP was asking about a "wiped joint", which connects lead pipe to lead pipe or a brass ferrule. It is not the same as a packed and poured joint in bell and spigot cast iron.
    ChrisJmattmia2Alan (California Radiant) Forbeskcopp
  • JohnNY
    JohnNY Member Posts: 3,053

    @ChrisJ I can do let it know come \

    lead and oakum



    Contact John "JohnNY" Cataneo, NYC Master Plumber, Lic 1784
    Consulting
    Plumbing in NYC or in NJ.
    Take his class.
    ChrisJrick in Alaskarealliveplumberethicalpaul
  • pedmec
    pedmec Member Posts: 713
    I think that someone confused a lead wiped water service joint with a lead and oakum pack and pour joint. I tried a wiped joint once but the lead was so dirty it wouldn't take. Had the customer call for a new water main.
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 7,171
    Wiped joints are used in waste piping as well where the smaller pipes feeding in to the cast iron are lead with brass at the fixture connections.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 13,883
    mattmia2 said:
    Wiped joints are used in waste piping as well where the smaller pipes feeding in to the cast iron are lead with brass at the fixture connections.
    Like a toilet?
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 7,171
    ChrisJ said:


    mattmia2 said:

    Wiped joints are used in waste piping as well where the smaller pipes feeding in to the cast iron are lead with brass at the fixture connections.

    Like a toilet?

    Or a sink or tub. Lead closet bends were around a while after most other lead waste had been replaced with steel.
  • reggi
    reggi Member Posts: 317
    edited October 2022
    EDIT: well I was close..
    @Mark Eatherton 
    https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1480829#Comment_1480829



    Who told the story of the old timer sticking his finger in the pot to see if the lead was hot enough ( DON'T TRY THIS)..
    Plumber B didn't realize the old timer sucked on his finger and got it wet before putting it in the pot... something like that
    DON'T TRY 
    One way to get familiar something you know nothing about is to ask a really smart person a really stupid question
    Long Beach Ed
  • pedmec
    pedmec Member Posts: 713
    absolutely, but the op was not referring to a lead closet bend or drainage
  • pedmec
    pedmec Member Posts: 713
    My bad, He wasn't that specific. Just assumed that he meant water service. I have never did it and never seen anybody do it. We just rip them out
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 13,883
    pedmec said:
    My bad, He wasn't that specific. Just assumed that he meant water service. I have never did it and never seen anybody do it. We just rip them out

    How do you connect a toilet to a cast iron drain?

    NYC requires cast iron.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • pedmec
    pedmec Member Posts: 713
    @ChrisJ Do you mean just the closet flange? If you mean the closet flange we just use the closet flange insert. i guess its called the two finger flange.

    If its service weight we use push gaskets then change to no hub.

  • San Francisco used to require pouring a lead joint when transitioning to new cast iron because the old cast iron pipe had a smaller OD. This was back in the 70's and 80's. I did a few of those, but never had to wipe a joint which seems like a much more difficult operation and took some experience and skill.

    They also required a mercury loaded slack tube manometer for a gas test. And when piping gas, every horizontal to vertical change in direction had to have a drip leg.
    8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour
  • BenDplumber
    BenDplumber Member Posts: 41
    Had to do a lead wipe in 1991 to get a journeyman card,even though it wasn't used in practice anymore. It was more to keep travelers from other jurisdictions from working in the city, Obviously things have changed and there's no such thing as a master plumbers license anymore, just a state contractors license which is based on the business side of contracting not on the skills of installing a piping system. Failed the first time, but after talking to now " Dead Men" was able to get the second test. Humility has always been my best teacher.
    Charlie from wmass
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 7,171
    Wasn't chicago still installing lead services in 1991?
  • BenDplumber
    BenDplumber Member Posts: 41
    My test was for DWV piping 4" brass ferrule from a caulked bell and spigot Cast iron to a lead closet bend. Smaller bore lead water service pipe wasn't used in testing procedure for plumbers around here, however the electricians/ telephone techs needed to pass a similar test. Lead water services were adapted with Ford meter couplings or generally replaced with type k or l copper. Now replaced with PEX
  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 1,417
    What is wrong with these folks? What's it going to take? A lawsuit to stop from using this poison (Lead) in any form. I was trained to wipe lead and poring lead joints. I do not do it any longer. I do not, in this day in age see the use of this type of testing any longer.
    The word "Plumbism" exists because of health issues.
    Come out of the dark ages long island.
    Charlie from wmass
  • Dave Carpentier
    Dave Carpentier Member Posts: 410
    Spent a coupla decades doing lead wipes to seal lead pipe splice cases (telecom). Biggest would have been 12" dia. I learned on thick solder and asbestos pads, but the guys before me had to use the open melting pots with propane heaters in the small manhole beside them. The early solder had a nice slump temperature range but then regs made it so you could only get stuff with a pretty narrow and high range. Moving the solder without popping a hole in the lead sleeve was a challenge in tight spaces (working in a mirror reflection etc).
    Glad those days are well behind me.
    30+ yrs in telecom outside plant.
    Currently in building maintenance.
    realliveplumberLong Beach Ed
  • archibald tuttle
    archibald tuttle Member Posts: 989

    Fernco fittings are not allowed inside the building in Massachusetts. At least not yet they are trying to destroy the plumbing code in this state too.

    but you can use nohubs . . . no?
    Charlie from wmass
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 3,899
    Last I Knew, The NYC School Construction Authority was spec'ing out poured lead and oakum joints on all underground, but the Master Plumbers test stopped requiring it in the 1990s after a lawsuit. I believe the three townships in Nassau are still requiring it - last I checked. I'm extremely proud of my lead wipe from 1998 that earned me my Master Plumber's Plate. It wasn't easy, took months of practice to master it and you would get hot molten lead under your nails sometimes. You may never use it but it shows are great degree of commitment and skill. I'm for keeping it going. Like Mercury and other toxic materials don't eat it and you'll be fine. Mad Dog
    realliveplumberLong Beach Ed
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 13,883
    Mad Dog_2 said:
    Last I Knew, The NYC School Construction Authority was spec'ing out poured lead and oakum joints on all underground, but the Master Plumbers test stopped requiring it in the 1990s after a lawsuit. I believe the three townships in Nassau are still requiring it - last I checked. I'm extremely proud of my lead wipe from 1998 that earned me my Master Plumber's Plate. It wasn't easy, took months of practice to master it and you would get hot molten lead under your nails sometimes. You may never use it but it shows are great degree of commitment and skill. I'm for keeping it going. Like Mercury and other toxic materials don't eat it and you'll be fine. Mad Dog

    Expecting people not to eat toxic stuff is expecting too much.

    Apparently.

    Just like needing to protect them from hot radiators.


    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    Long Beach Ed
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 7,171
    Mercury evaporates in to the air and is inhaled. It must be cleaned up thoroughly if spilled.
    I'm not sure why that doesn't result in noticable loss in a manometer.
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 3,899
    no....I don't make a habit of eating those things either. There is a disorder called Pica where people crave weird things like Lead paint chips. Mad Dog