Lead Wipe Long Island

LBPAHenry

Apparently Town of Hempstead still requires the antiquated lead wipe for their Master Plumber's practical. Does anyone know of anyone who teaches this in the Long Island, NY area?

EdTheHeaterMan

Do they provide the HazMat suites for the practical?

pecmsg

EdTheHeaterMan said:

Do they provide the HazMat suites for the practical?

With asbestos gloves and boots!

ChrisJ

Isn't it still required for cast iron work which is required in NYC?


@Charlie from wmass can do lead.

Charlie from wmass

@ChrisJ I can do let it know come but I never learned how to wipe a joint. I know my father was good at it and whenever I asked him to teach me he said it was a waste of time to practice as it was so easy to do. Over 30 years as a licensed plumber and I have never had to wipe a lead joint

ChrisJ

Charlie from wmass said:

@ChrisJ I can do let it know come but I never learned how to wipe a joint. I know my father was good at it and whenever I asked him to teach me he said it was a waste of time to practice as it was so easy to do. Over 30 years as a licensed plumber and I have never had to wipe a lead joint

For anyone reading this..... It's gotta be voice to text ...... I don't think he's having a stroke

pecmsg

ChrisJ said:

Isn't it still required for cast iron work which is required in NYC?


@Charlie from wmass can do lead.

We used Fernco fittings. Lead joints are 40 , 50 years out. 

Charlie from wmass

Fernco fittings are not allowed inside the building in Massachusetts. At least not yet they are trying to destroy the plumbing code in this state too.

neilc

ChrisJ said:

Charlie from wmass said:

@ChrisJ I can do let it know come but I never learned how to wipe a joint. I know my father was good at it and whenever I asked him to teach me he said it was a waste of time to practice as it was so easy to do. Over 30 years as a licensed plumber and I have never had to wipe a lead joint

For anyone reading this..... It's gotta be voice to text ...... I don't think he's having a stroke

lead poisoning ???

EBEBRATT-Ed

@Charlie from wmass

I heard at my last update class that for the first time ever the plumbing board is no longer run by licensed plumbers. Destruction is well on it's way.

Charlie from wmass

The plumbing board has always only had two licensed plumbers it also had two licensed gas fitters a master license and a journeyman license for each trade respectively so that we can keep track of both the interests of the business owner and interest of the person in the field.

Charlie from wmass

Yes I often use voice to text. There's also an appointed member of the board that is not in the trades to have input from the general public. They are the consumer advocate of the board.

mattmia2

Someone still manufactures ci with a hub?

mattmia2

I'd think learning would be enormously expensive. Lead sheet and tube aren't cheap. I think it would be fairly easy to do in a lab setting where you have good access. you have to remember that unlike solder which is alloyed to minimize the plastic region, lead has a large plastic region, so you heat it to where it is plastic but not molten and move it around. doing that on a bench isn't that hard. it would be a lot harder in some corner of a building.

mattmia2

Look at videos of people doing bodywork with lead.

retiredguy

My grand father was a self employed master plumber who was born around 1895. He showed me how to do a lead joint in a cast iron hub. You need a stove (as he called it), a melting pot, a ladle, the lead, of course, some oakum, and an asbestos rope device. You put the male end into the hub, tap in just enough oakum, wrap the hub with the rope thing, and pour in the lead. looked easy, but I would not do it. Today, OSHA would probably fine you "out of existence" and instead of 1 plumber doing the work you would need a small army to meet all the safety requirements. Thank you for Fernco.

ChrisJ

I'm amazed at the amount of people who are scared if it's something harder than glueing pvc together.

realliveplumber

I just poured a lead joint yesterday. Connecting a new shower drain to an existing cast iron tee. No big deal.

The OP was asking about a "wiped joint", which connects lead pipe to lead pipe or a brass ferrule. It is not the same as a packed and poured joint in bell and spigot cast iron.

JohnNY

Charlie from wmass said:

@ChrisJ I can do let it know come \

lead and oakum

pedmec

I think that someone confused a lead wiped water service joint with a lead and oakum pack and pour joint. I tried a wiped joint once but the lead was so dirty it wouldn't take. Had the customer call for a new water main.

mattmia2

Wiped joints are used in waste piping as well where the smaller pipes feeding in to the cast iron are lead with brass at the fixture connections.

ChrisJ

mattmia2 said:

Wiped joints are used in waste piping as well where the smaller pipes feeding in to the cast iron are lead with brass at the fixture connections.

Like a toilet?

mattmia2

ChrisJ said:

mattmia2 said:

Wiped joints are used in waste piping as well where the smaller pipes feeding in to the cast iron are lead with brass at the fixture connections.

Like a toilet?

Or a sink or tub. Lead closet bends were around a while after most other lead waste had been replaced with steel.

reggi

EDIT: well I was close..
@Mark Eatherton 
https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1480829#Comment_1480829



Who told the story of the old timer sticking his finger in the pot to see if the lead was hot enough ( DON'T TRY THIS)..
Plumber B didn't realize the old timer sucked on his finger and got it wet before putting it in the pot... something like that
DON'T TRY 

pedmec

absolutely, but the op was not referring to a lead closet bend or drainage

pedmec

My bad, He wasn't that specific. Just assumed that he meant water service. I have never did it and never seen anybody do it. We just rip them out

ChrisJ

pedmec said:

My bad, He wasn't that specific. Just assumed that he meant water service. I have never did it and never seen anybody do it. We just rip them out

How do you connect a toilet to a cast iron drain?

NYC requires cast iron.

pedmec

@ChrisJ Do you mean just the closet flange? If you mean the closet flange we just use the closet flange insert. i guess its called the two finger flange.

If its service weight we use push gaskets then change to no hub.

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

San Francisco used to require pouring a lead joint when transitioning to new cast iron because the old cast iron pipe had a smaller OD. This was back in the 70's and 80's. I did a few of those, but never had to wipe a joint which seems like a much more difficult operation and took some experience and skill.

They also required a mercury loaded slack tube manometer for a gas test. And when piping gas, every horizontal to vertical change in direction had to have a drip leg.

mattmia2

Wasn't chicago still installing lead services in 1991?

Intplm.

What is wrong with these folks? What's it going to take? A lawsuit to stop from using this poison (Lead) in any form. I was trained to wipe lead and poring lead joints. I do not do it any longer. I do not, in this day in age see the use of this type of testing any longer.
The word "Plumbism" exists because of health issues.
Come out of the dark ages long island.

Dave Carpentier

Spent a coupla decades doing lead wipes to seal lead pipe splice cases (telecom). Biggest would have been 12" dia. I learned on thick solder and asbestos pads, but the guys before me had to use the open melting pots with propane heaters in the small manhole beside them. The early solder had a nice slump temperature range but then regs made it so you could only get stuff with a pretty narrow and high range. Moving the solder without popping a hole in the lead sleeve was a challenge in tight spaces (working in a mirror reflection etc).
Glad those days are well behind me.

archibald tuttle

Charlie from wmass said:

Fernco fittings are not allowed inside the building in Massachusetts. At least not yet they are trying to destroy the plumbing code in this state too.

but you can use nohubs . . . no?

JohnNY

My brother uses one of his wiped water closet joints to prop the window open in his classroom at The General Society of Mechanics and Tradesmen.

Mad Dog_2

Last I Knew, The NYC School Construction Authority was spec'ing out poured lead and oakum joints on all underground, but the Master Plumbers test stopped requiring it in the 1990s after a lawsuit. I believe the three townships in Nassau are still requiring it - last I checked. I'm extremely proud of my lead wipe from 1998 that earned me my Master Plumber's Plate. It wasn't easy, took months of practice to master it and you would get hot molten lead under your nails sometimes. You may never use it but it shows are great degree of commitment and skill. I'm for keeping it going. Like Mercury and other toxic materials don't eat it and you'll be fine. Mad Dog

ChrisJ

Mad Dog_2 said:

Last I Knew, The NYC School Construction Authority was spec'ing out poured lead and oakum joints on all underground, but the Master Plumbers test stopped requiring it in the 1990s after a lawsuit. I believe the three townships in Nassau are still requiring it - last I checked. I'm extremely proud of my lead wipe from 1998 that earned me my Master Plumber's Plate. It wasn't easy, took months of practice to master it and you would get hot molten lead under your nails sometimes. You may never use it but it shows are great degree of commitment and skill. I'm for keeping it going. Like Mercury and other toxic materials don't eat it and you'll be fine. Mad Dog

Expecting people not to eat toxic stuff is expecting too much.

Apparently.

Just like needing to protect them from hot radiators.

mattmia2

Mercury evaporates in to the air and is inhaled. It must be cleaned up thoroughly if spilled.
I'm not sure why that doesn't result in noticable loss in a manometer.

Mad Dog_2

no....I don't make a habit of eating those things either. There is a disorder called Pica where people crave weird things like Lead paint chips. Mad Dog

Intplm.

Lead....lead poured joints. Lead paint. Lead.
Hey! I had used it for years. Still do but very rarely.
In this day in age why? Why? It isn't necessary.
I think the word "Plumbism" came about because of illnesses caused by lead exposure.
It's not hysteria. This is real-world stuff.
Look. If you prefer to put yourself in harm's way from lead and lead fumes?
To each his own?

ChrisJ

Intplm. said:

Lead....lead poured joints. Lead paint. Lead.
Hey! I had used it for years. Still do but very rarely.
In this day in age why? Why? It isn't necessary.
I think the word "Plumbism" came about because of illnesses caused by lead exposure.
It's not hysteria. This is real-world stuff.
Look. If you prefer to put yourself in harm's way from lead and lead fumes?
To each his own?

It wasn't necessary to use lead in paint ever.

To the best of my knowledge lead was used as a cheap pigment. So far, assuming my tests are accurate I've found no lead in 1930s GE white refrigerator paint. The same tests indicated lead in old paint in my house so I assume they work.

In my eyes, leaded paint was cheap, nothing else and we knew it was toxic back then too. Same with lead water service lines, we knew jolly well it was a bad idea to use lead piping in the 1800s and early 1980s.


That said,
Lead fumes?

I've never heard of lead fumes being an issue with lead soldering. You want to operate cleanly, keep your fingers etc away from your face and mouth but I've never heard of lead fumes from lead solder. Flux fumes, sure.

My understanding is the primary reason for lead free soldering in electronics is it ends up leaching into the water supply via land fills.

Intplm.

ChrisJ said:

Intplm. said:

Lead....lead poured joints. Lead paint. Lead.
Hey! I had used it for years. Still do but very rarely.
In this day in age why? Why? It isn't necessary.
I think the word "Plumbism" came about because of illnesses caused by lead exposure.
It's not hysteria. This is real-world stuff.
Look. If you prefer to put yourself in harm's way from lead and lead fumes?
To each his own?

It wasn't necessary to use lead in paint ever.

To the best of my knowledge lead was used as a cheap pigment. So far, assuming my tests are accurate I've found no lead in 1930s GE white refrigerator paint. The same tests indicated lead in old paint in my house so I assume they work.

In my eyes, leaded paint was cheap, nothing else and we knew it was toxic back then too. Same with lead water service lines, we knew jolly well it was a bad idea to use lead piping in the 1800s and early 1980s.


That said,
Lead fumes?

I've never heard of lead fumes being an issue with lead soldering. You want to operate cleanly, keep your fingers etc away from your face and mouth but I've never heard of lead fumes from lead solder. Flux fumes, sure.

My understanding is the primary reason for lead free soldering in electronics is it ends up leaching into the water supply via land fills.

Agree with much of what you are saying. My thoughts when commenting are toward lead joints being wiped on lead piping and lead joints adapting to brass or copper DWV with a ferrel. This type of work is heavy with lead and lead fumes when melting that can be breathed in.
I don't stock lead 50/50 solder any longer because it might get mixed into the potable water piping joints.
Pouring lead joints is also to what I was referring to.
Requiring lead wiping work as a test towards a plumbing lic. etc. ? I ask why? Haven't we evolved?