R410A Flared couplings

pedmec

I don't think its the flare fittings that are the problem with minisplits. Most of the leaks i have encountered have have been a combination of flares and evaporators. But if you look more closely the pdm white linesets are having a huge impact on that segment of the industry. I don't do a lot in this segment but what has been sold to me are standard armaflex insulated linesets.

ratio

pecmsg said:

All the compressors were Flared to the line set, then 95/5 was used!

Hmmm. I'm just messing with you, but wouldn't that mean that they didn't trust the flares either?

pecmsg

That was standard on small belt drive compressors

mattmia2

pecmsg said:

That was standard on small belt drive compressors

aren't flairs pretty standard on components for commercial refrigeration like walk in coolers. Not to mention the caps that keep the refrigerant in at the service valves of split systems.

zmann96

Kinda funny, I posted this thread looking to see if the flared unions ( bluefin ) at the supply house were rated for 500 -600 psi. Never did get a direct answer. I did find the rated unions I need. Interesting how the side track has developed, enjoyed reading the discussion.

archibald tuttle

@zmann96 in other words: nevermind :-)

I hadnt really thought about the rating of the union itself. But imagine you get the highest rating with forged nuts.

zmann96

Yes, exactly

pecmsg

In my 40+ years I can’t say I’ve seen ver seen a rating on a flair nut, Union, fitting. I’m sure there are like a Sch 40 ell is rated forX. Flairs not handling the pressure of 410A ?

mattmia2

I suspect they are manufactured to some astm or ansi spec and that spec has pressure ratings for various sizes that meet that spec (or specs).

zmann96

I found out that Bluefin on The Supply house are from China branded for Supply House and are rated at 250psi. I purchased An Anderson brand their psi's range by size 1/4" ( 1250 psi ) to 5/8" ( 750 psi)

archibald tuttle

@zmann96

sorry, after this went every which way from sunday, and then you appeared to get your answer (maybe someone at 1-800supplyhouse dug it up for you?) kinda let this drop, but actually still interested. The whole point of the earlier discussion was on how to have less flares, so I don't imagine a lot of folks are adding many flare unions into high pressure line sets. But I will concede it never occurred to me to consider the "rating" of these bits. Until minisplits came along, I only ever used this for propane and oil lines, not exactly 'pressure' cookers. The point was good sealing to allow oil priming but not against microns of vaccuum or the highest residential operating pressures of any fluid system i'm thinking of right off the top of my head. But I guess it's hard for me to imagine a fitting that 700 psi would blow apart unless it had such loose threads or poor metalurgy as to not meet general industry standards anyway . . . ?

So, that said, what i'm interested in is whether the rating might speak to simply having tested at higher pressures whereas Bluefin has not tested? There seem to be industry standards for thread and mating. not sure of material and finish specs. Those seem more open. What exact mix of brass (and logically by sector, the bluefins are NOT LF) or maybe higher care of polish or packaging with protective covers to provide most reliable mating surfaces?

I have long understood the "Bluefin" brand as value based import, i.e. made in china, but forgetting the questions of international supply chains and geopolitics, I've experienced good value in that line so far as maybe 10 years of purchase of that brand. OF course the rubber hits the road in the next 10 years, but I've had plenty of mainstream labeled brass pex fittings give up in difficult water environments irrespective of the zip code of the manufacturer. (Maybe that is why, in the slow recovery from the polybeautiful fittings disaster, plastic fittings are back on the menu . . .).

TmKady

ChrisJ said:

pecmsg said:

Minis have 4 connection points. It's not that hard to make and seal 4 flairs!

Flares are easy to make.

Easy is still too hard for many.

I don't have experience with the Zoomlock (now new name: RLS - Rapid Locking System) but they are "listed to UL207 for pressures up to 700 psi". Seems like a great option esp. if you have fire watch requirements, but even if not. I'm wondering what you all think of the Navac NEF6LM power flaring tool that HVACR School did a video on - is it idiot proof? Also, watched the guy who founded NYLOG talk about it and he says it is basically refrigerant oil, use on faces of flares, not on threads.

pecmsg

TmKady said:

Minis have 4 connection points. It's not that hard to make and seal 4 flairs!

Flares are easy to make. Easy is still too hard for many.

I don't have experience with the Zoomlock (now new name: RLS - Rapid Locking System) but they are "listed to UL207 for pressures up to 700 psi". Seems like a great option esp. if you have fire watch requirements, but even if not. I'm wondering what you all think of the Navac NEF6LM power flaring tool that HVACR School did a video on - is it idiot proof? Also, watched the guy who founded NYLOG talk about it and he says it is basically refrigerant oil, use on faces of flares, not on threads.

Only as good as the idiot using it!