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EDR Sizing

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Hi All. I measured for a system replacement yesterday that consist of 12 radiators measuring 479 EDR. There are roughly 50' of 2" steam mains in the basement without insulation. The homeowner doesn't want to insulate the pipes. Do I account for the uninsulated piping and fittings in the EDR? If so, what's the best way of doing that? Thanks for the input!

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  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 5,703
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    No. The 30% pickup that is already factored into the net sq ft will more than cover it.

    Do they want to keep them uninsulated to provide some heat to the basement?
    NJ Steam Homeowner. See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el
  • random12345
    random12345 Member Posts: 469
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    Are the pipes located somewhere it gets really cold? Does it have to be all or nothing with the insulation?
  • Matthias
    Matthias Member Posts: 38
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    @random12345 & @ethicalpaul thanks for the replies. The uninsulated pipes are in a basement. Most people that I deal with don't insulate the pipes even though they are told how important it is. @random12345 what do you mean by all or nothing? @ethicalpaul they like the heat the basement pipes provide.
  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 5,739
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    50’ is 6.47% of the system EDR.  The 33% pickup is way more than you need, so I see zero issues here.
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
    ethicalpaul
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 23,313
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    Insulation on mains... oh well. Part of it is people think it keeps the basement warmer (not much -- a 2 inch pipe is only 120 BTUh per foot, which is trivial). Part of it is that older insulation wasn't all that pretty, but newer sheathed insulation is pretty nice, seems to me.

    The real advantage to insulating the mains is that when the boiler starts up the steam will travel to the end of the pipe much more rapidly than without the insulation, and make a lot less condensate in the process. Both of which make it much easier to provide a quiet, even heating installation.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 5,703
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    How can the heating value of a main be trivial (which I mostly agree with--but it is noticeable) and yet heating up that pipe supposedly causes a lot more condensate which allegedly can cause problems?

    Since the radiators aren't even getting steam, the amount of condensate created by heating the main must be a tiny fraction of the condensation created later in the heating cycle, right? How could it cause a problem? (and I will add that I can see how much condensate is returning in my system at any given time so I have some direct observation on my side too :sweat_smile: )

    NJ Steam Homeowner. See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el
  • Matthias
    Matthias Member Posts: 38
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    Thanks for your comments guys. I agree that insulation should be done. However, convincing the homeowners in another matter.