1.28 vs. 1.6 GPF Toilets: Which to choose?

taylorgeo

Private house, family of four.

ChrisJ

You can keep all of this in one thread.

In fact, it would probably be highly beneficial to you because everyone could see the history of the discussion to help see what you're trying to accomplish.

taylorgeo

@ChrisJ

Yeah, good point. My bad.

So my supply house only has an American Standard Cadet PRO in a 1.28. I currently have a 25-year-old Kohler 1.6.

I'm surprised I can't get the 1.6 AS from the supply house. Should I just go with the 1.28?

Thanks!

EBEBRATT-Ed

you can do what i do and flush 2x if you have to

Robert_25

We have a 10 yr old Kohler 1.6, Toto 1.28, and a Delta 1.28 in our house.  I would not buy another 1.6 toilet.

although the Toto is my favorite I would give the Delta my “Best Buy” rating.  It was inexpensive and works great.

taylorgeo

@Robert_25

Cool, thanks for the info.

The 1.28 is also WaterSense Certified. Not sure how big of a deal that is.

ChrisJ

taylorgeo said:

@Robert_25 Cool, thanks for the info. The 1.28 is also WaterSense Certified. Not sure how big of a deal that is.

Personally i don't care what it's certified.  I just want sh......poo to go down everytime. I don't care if it's 1.25 gallons or 5 gallons.

But that's me.

EBEBRATT-Ed

I have 2 1.6gph Kohler's. The round one would pull your arm to the sewage plant. The one upstairs with the elongated bowel is just ok

ChrisJ

EBEBRATT-Ed said:

I have 2 1.6gph Kohler's. The round one would pull your arm to the sewage plant. The one upstairs with the elongated bowel is just ok

Are they both the same age and model other than elongated vs round?

I have a 1.6 Kohler that's one of the worst I've ever used.   I also have a 1.6 Gerber that's amazing.

EBEBRATT-Ed

@ChrisJ yes within a couple months of each other

mattmia2

I think this comes more down to design than amount. There are terrible 1.6 toilets and great 1.2 toilets.

ChrisJ

mattmia2 said:

I think this comes more down to design than amount. There are terrible 1.6 toilets and great 1.2 toilets.

That's why I said I don't care how much water it uses as long as it does the job well.

1.2,1.6,3,5. Don't care.

HomerJSmith

The problem is and always has been "solids transport". The lower the flush quantity, the more the chance of waste being left behind. The dia of the soil piping has a lot to do with moving solids down the line. Too big a pipe and too little water makes Roto Rooter a happy camper.

Yes, a low flush toilet saves water, but not if you have to flush twice and certainly doesn't pay off if you have to call a rooting service. Bureaucrats are poor planners. As for me 1.6 is my choice. If that choice doesn't exist than 1.28 rated at a 5. Dual flush is the way to go. One for liquid wastes and one for solid wastes.

pedmec

The problem is you wont know until you buy it and have it installed. That's when you find out whether you bought a good one or not.

taylorgeo

@HomerJSmith

HomerJSmith said:

"1.28 rated at a 5"

How would I find that out?

BenDplumber

,I have had great luck with the Gerber Viper 1.6 gpf. Easily repaired with a flapper and fludmaster ballcock found easily at any hardware store. Code around here requires a branch drain of higher discharge i.e washing machine,lavatory, shower downstream of the water closet connection to increase drainline carry of solids from a low flush water closets in new construction. That being said I still have 50 year old American Standard 3.5 gpf water closets that perform flawlessly. If you have a older home with cast iron drainage piping at a minimum slope, I would suggest spending the most you can afford on a name brand closet from a plumbing wholesaler, rather than the big box stores. All new water closets must meet a standard in testing for bowl clearage and drainline carry under ideal factory conditions with new clear pvc piping for verification.Unfortunatly in the real world I think we are all know how that works out...double flushes, single ply sandpaper toilet paper and visits from the local sewer rodder. Toto is also a good choice however if the model has a G-MAX flange I would recommend having a plumbing contractor do the installation.

Robert_25

taylorgeo said:

@HomerJSmith

HomerJSmith said:

"1.28 rated at a 5"

How would I find that out?

You can read a lot of toilet reviews online. I found Terry Love's summary very helpful: https://www.terrylove.com/crtoilet.htm

Yesterday I noticed that our last old toilet (1980's American Standard, 3.5 GPF I think) is leaking past the flapper. I know it is a cheap fix, but I decided it is a good time to upgrade. I ended up ordering a Toto Drake 1.28 GPF.

TAG

ChrisJ said:

mattmia2 said:

I think this comes more down to design than amount. There are terrible 1.6 toilets and great 1.2 toilets.

That's why I said I don't care how much water it uses as long as it does the job well.

1.2,1.6,3,5. Don't care.

My old suburban house has a very long main drain -- it's a big long extended cape on a rise with a walk out lower level. I remodeled the second floor bath when I bought it years ago and in went a low flow toilet ... we would have a problem almost every summer when the house was mostly empty. The toilet did not give enough water to flow all the way out to the street and clogs would occur at the main trap/ back flow. The other toilets in the house were water hog lowboy Kohler. The fix was to switch it out. Same with an old farm house I had w/ septic -- I mentioned in another thread I needed to get a pressure assist for that one. It must have had some wacky fittings to the main and needed the push ....

Jamie Hall

@HomerJSmith and @TAG made a very good point up there. If you have older, large, often rather flat plumbing or a long often rather flat drain to the street or your septic system, the low flush toilets WILL give you trouble, even if they manage to clear the bowl (some do, some don't). And the insidious part is that that won't show up right away — it may be months before solids build up in the drain to the point that you have a problem. If you're stuck with replacing a good old 5 gallon unit on one of those systems (rather than fixing what's leaking or not working), with a low flow unit plan on giving any solids at least two or better three flushes. It's not the new toilet's fault — just the way the water does or doesn't flow.

ethicalpaul

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1709415#Comment_1709415

Bureaucrats are poor planners. As for me 1.6 is my choice.

Didn't bureaucrats mandate 1.6?

ChrisJ

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1808512#Comment_1808512

And 3 gallon.

Personally I find the most recent 1.6's outperform the 3's I've used.

But all of my 114 year old cast iron has a proper amount of pitch.

JUGHNE

Having 2 teenage boys at one time, the decision was to flush before and then after the paperwork.

This solved most problems and the solution has been passed down to the next generation after 30 years or so.

So double flushing in the middle of the process is the answer here.

ChrisJ

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1808517#Comment_1808517

Never found the need with a modern 1.6G.

Not unless it's a rare really bad situation.

JUGHNE

It is a habit I have and the wife does not.

Also we are about 300' of 4" pipe from the 6" main. Then there are only 2 more houses before a manhole about 500' from that.

I have always wondered how long it takes for our donations to get to that manhole.

ethicalpaul

See also "Mercy Flush" or "Courtesy Flush"

Which are totally mythological…the smell has already escaped

leonz

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/189027/1-28-vs-1-6-gpf-toilets-which-to-choose

A bidet or toilet with a three inch trap will allow a better flush speed and less clogging.

HomerJSmith

@ethicalpaul—Yes, the bureaucrats did mandate 1.6 flush, but what choice do you have. You can't buy a 3 gal flush except out of a bone yard. There are 'no flush urinals', but that's liquid waste. Solid waste is a different matter. Most waste sys are old and were designed for a 3 gal flush. There was some talk about going to a 2 1/2" soil line to facilitate solid transport with the low flush toilets.

Added note: What would life be like with out toilet paper. Hmmm Dealing with human waste in an adequate manner is a sign of a high civilization. It is probably the main reason for the elimination of diseases that have plagued mankind for eons. Doctors think they have done it, but is was the sanitary engineers that should be credited.

hot_rod

Probably a combination of the actual toilet and the operator on any given day

I worked as a hotel maintenance plumber once. Its amazing the wide variety of loads found in toilet bowls 😯

If you expect a potential problem get a toilet dual flush, a flushometer, or one of the pressure assisted with the Sloan pressure tank system type

IMG_8391.png

ChrisJ

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1808526#Comment_1808526

That's a big part of why I decided I'm downsizing my 4" to a 3" when I finally replace all of the cast iron with pvc. I believe the claims that a 3" pipe works better with modern toilets.

Keep in mind, when 4" became the standard 3.5 gallon wasn't a set standard. I think that became a thing in the 1980s? Allegedly, there's many 4-5 gallon flush toilets out there, or at least was.

Jamie Hall

Fun detail… Rome had water carriage sewers. So did the Minoans, a thousand years earlier…

And yes. There is a truism in the sanitary engineering trade — both design and operation. If it can be fit down a toilet bowl, it will be…

HomerJSmith

The size of the soil pipe is determined by the number of fixture units, as I recollect. I hated working on soil pipes, every germ in the Universe has a home there.

ChrisJ

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1808559#Comment_1808559

Correct.

And that number varies from code to code some. In my area I can use 3" for quite a bit more than I have, but I can also just go with a 4" like I currently have. I'm choosing to go down a size because I feel 3" works better with modern toilets.

In some areas you must have a 4" and that's that, luckily my area isn't one of them.