Oil to Gas Conversion - Babylon, NY HVAC/Plumber Recommendations

PilotPat24

Hey Guys,

I am looking to convert one of my houses in the Town of Babylon (Long Island, NY) from Oil to Gas. Does anyone have any recommendations of HVAC/Plumbers to perform the conversion? It's a hydronic 2 zone system in an unfinished basement. The gas line is in the street. Any input would be greatly apreciated.

Thanks,

Pat

HVACNUT

Did you use the "find a contractor" link? There's a few on the Island who are members here. I know @Robert O'Brien is in Nassau. Don't know if he goes to Suffolk. 

fbartol21

Just one caveat. Changing the fuel is one thing but the heat exchanger is an important part in efficiency (getting the heat that you are paying for in the home and not up the chimney). A drum is not very good for efficiency. Also they don't last forever. Ask your contractor about efficiency and life of the heat exchanger and don't be lured by the low price of a conversion burner.

pecmsg

Is Keyspan even allowing NEW hookups?

In_New_England

@fbartol21 I went all they way, diving into recent tech, by opting for a mod-con (and a combi at that), but putting on a conversion burner cost half of what the new boiler costs.

If your boiler and other system parts are new, a conversion burner is not a bad way to go, no? There is no way you will recoup the costs of a new boiler if the old one was working fine.

PilotPat24

pecmsg said:

Is Keyspan even allowing NEW hookups?

Yes they are.

PilotPat24

In_New_England said:

@fbartol21 I went all they way, diving into recent tech, by opting for a mod-con (and a combi at that), but putting on a conversion burner cost half of what the new boiler costs. If your boiler and other system parts are new, a conversion burner is not a bad way to go, no? There is no way you will recoup the costs of a new boiler if the old one was working fine.

Thanks for the feedback.  All of the current equipment has to be over 25 years old.  It's still working as is.

PilotPat24

HVACNUT said:

Did you use the "find a contractor" link? There's a few on the Island who are members here. I know @Robert O'Brien is in Nassau. Don't know if he goes to Suffolk. 

I checked the "find a contractor" link. No of those guys service Babylon from what it looks like. I wish Mikey Pipes came into Babylon. He does nice work!

JohnNY

@ronjr works out there as far as I know.

PilotPat24

JohnNY said:

@ronjr works out there as far as I know.

Okay.  Thanks.

Tim_D

The Weil-McLain find a contractor link came up with numerous hits. www.weil-mclain.com

PilotPat24

Tim_D said:

The Weil-McLain find a contractor link came up with numerous hits. www.weil-mclain.com

Thanks Tim. I appreciate. I am still trying to figure out if switching over to Natural Gas financially will be worth it?

pecmsg

I doubt you’ll ever see the return on investment. NG, Oil over the long term are about equal. 

In_New_England

pecmsg said:

I doubt you’ll ever see the return on investment. NG, Oil over the long term are about equal. 

Is the statement that if you installed an oil boiler today (85% AFUE I think) and a gas mod-con (95% AFUE) your fuel costs would be the same?

I did a lot of asking around, and got fuel cost spreadsheets form my neighbor and colleagues. Basically, if the old owners of the home, ten years ago, instead of putting in a new oil boiler had switched to gas, even a cast-iron gas one (like my neighbor has), we wold have saved $4000 or so in fuel costs.

That's with a $2000 oil budget. If you are spending more on oil, I think the savings will be greater.

My neighbor has an identical house and his gas bills have been 34% lower than my oil bills for the past two years.

Big Ed_4

Ten years it is , ten years it is not .. Oil was cheaper for years until recently .... Your call

pecmsg

In_New_England said:

I doubt you’ll ever see the return on investment. NG, Oil over the long term are about equal. 

Is the statement that if you installed an oil boiler today (85% AFUE I think) and a gas mod-con (95% AFUE) your fuel costs would be the same? I did a lot of asking around, and got fuel cost spreadsheets form my neighbor and colleagues. Basically, if the old owners of the home, ten years ago, instead of putting in a new oil boiler had switched to gas, even a cast-iron gas one (like my neighbor has), we wold have saved $4000 or so in fuel costs. That's with a $2000 oil budget. If you are spending more on oil, I think the savings will be greater. My neighbor has an identical house and his gas bills have been 34% lower than my oil bills for the past two years.

And how much would your neighbors paid in repairs on the 98% NG boiler over the same period?

In_New_England

@pecmsg That was the ironic thing. I pay about $300 per year to have the oil boiler serviced. While speaking with my neighbor I learned that he hadn't had that gas boiler serviced, ever. So for the 16 years he's been in that house, he hasn't had any work done on the boiler.

pecmsg

In_New_England said:

@pecmsg That was the ironic thing. I pay about $300 per year to have the oil boiler serviced. While speaking with my neighbor I learned that he hadn't had that gas boiler serviced, ever. So for the 16 years he's been in that house, he hasn't had any work done on the boiler.     

I don’t condone lack of annual maintenance but That shows how much abuse they’ll take. 

Not going to happen with High Efficiency equipment. Lucky to get 1 full year. 

And have a service contract, some of those parts are expensive if available at all.  

DJD775

In areas where natural gas is prevalent in my state an oil system can be seen as a huge negative when selling a house even in today's red hot market. Unless you plan on staying in your house till you die you either pay now or pay when you sell. I've never heard anyone that has natural gas wish they had oil.

In_New_England

DJD775 said:

In areas where natural gas is prevalent in my state an oil system can be seen as a huge negative when selling a house even in today's red hot market. Unless you plan on staying in your house till you die you either pay now or pay when you sell. I've never heard anyone that has natural gas wish they had oil.

That is another point to consider. When we bought our house we were first time buyers and were pretty naive and didn't care, but now, if I were buying, I'd go for a home with gas + heat pumps.

I read that some insurance companies won't insure homes with oil tanks. Oil leaks can be super expensive, so that's hanging over our head. I just read of the case of a home owner who's on the hook for an oil clean up from 10 years ago, that happened under a previous owner and was not completed because the previous owner got a financial waiver.

All said, our oil boiler has kept us warm this past decade with no issues, but I look forward to getting a more high-tech, efficient heating system installed.

Jamie Hall

I always sort of love these discussions. Way too many variables, way too little data, lots of "my neighbours said" with no data except anecdote... and always forgetting that the question of is this more expensive or that is attempting to forecast future economic conditions, which is a mug's game. And almost always forgetting that the question is extremely local. What is true for an application in one town -- or even part of a town -- may not be true half a mile away, never mind in the next state.

But they're fun to read.

DJD775

From our friends at Energy Kinetics: https://energykinetics.com/savingsheatingfuelcomparisons/

In_New_England

@Jamie Hall it is correct that there are many variables, the biggest one being energy prices in the future.

My move to gas has several motivators. A big one was liability. In terms of energy costs, even in the last couple of years, when oil was cheap, my next door neighbor, whose house is identical to mine, had gas costs 30% lower than my oil costs.

The cost of the new installation is high enough, however, that this alone would not have prompted me to convert. I could have tried with a gas conversion gun, just to get gas in the house and the oil tank out, and keep the boiler until it broke, but in the end I decided for a full migration.

heathead

That Energy Kinetics saving fuel comparisons is dated. Fuel oil is listed at $1.69 per gallon. Don't we all wish we could get fuel oil for that today.

DJD775

heathead said:

That Energy Kinetics saving fuel comparisons is dated. Fuel oil is listed at $1.69 per gallon. Don't we all wish we could get fuel oil for that today.

It's amazing how much prices have changed in 2 years.

In_New_England

DJD775 said:

heathead said:

That Energy Kinetics saving fuel comparisons is dated. Fuel oil is listed at $1.69 per gallon. Don't we all wish we could get fuel oil for that today.

It's amazing how much prices have changed in 2 years.

I was paying $4/gal in 2014. My annual fuel oil cost is a U shaped curve from 2014 to 2022

Jersey2

From my heating oil log:
09/21/2021- $2.7995
09/14/2020- $1.84
09/12/2019- $2.649
09/24/2018- $2.42
09/05/2017- $2.08
08/31/2016- $1.93
04/08/2015- $2.08
05/27/2014- $3.16
05/21/2013- $3.06
01/23/2013 $3.57
05/29/2012- $3.25

PilotPat24

Jersey2 said:

From my heating oil log:
09/21/2021- $2.7995
09/14/2020- $1.84
09/12/2019- $2.649
09/24/2018- $2.42
09/05/2017- $2.08
08/31/2016- $1.93
04/08/2015- $2.08
05/27/2014- $3.16
05/21/2013- $3.06
01/23/2013 $3.57
05/29/2012- $3.25

Decisions, Decisions, Decisions!!! What to do???

In_New_England

@jersey2 is this a sampling of your data, or do you buy a large amount of oil at a time?

Jersey2

I would buy 700 gallons a year, and it would last over a year. Those are purchases, not samples of prices. I bought less when it was high- $3.25 and $3.57/gallon so I purchased twice in 2013.

Jersey2

09/21/2021- $2.7995 X 549.7 = $1,538.89
09/14/2020- $1.84 x 700 = $1,288.00
09/12/2019- $2.649 X 700 = $1,854.30 Delv. 9/14/19 10:01am to 10:20am No price on receipt.
09/24/2018- $2.42 x 700 = $1,694.00 + $2.10 NORA Tax (11/19/2018)
09/05/2017- $2.08 x 600 = $1,248.00
08/31/2016- $1.93 x 700 = $1,351.00
04/08/2015- $2.08 x 700 = $1,456.00
05/27/2014- $3.16 x 670 = $2,117.20
05/21/2013- $3.06 x 700 = $2,142.00
01/23/2013 $3.57 x 300 = $1,071.00
05/29/2012- $3.25 x 500 = $1,625.00

Jersey2

One last comment, it blows my mind at 6+/gallon. 700 gallons would be $4,200! The way the Russia thing is going, I don't think oil is going to get lower by winter. Potentially it will go higher as winter demand kicks in.