HVAC probes

RayWohlfarth

I am looking to purchase HVAC probes I was thinking either the Testo or Fieldpiece. I have heard pros and cons of each. I would love your thoughts Are there any other I should consider?

mattmia2

Like test probes for a multimeter?

pecmsg

Never had an issue with analog due to dropping, heat, cold, rain. 

STEVEusaPA

I researched this fairly extensively and went with the Fieldpiece. The probes are great, and with my SC680 they work great with the FP app.
They also all work great with the MeasureQuick App.
The best price is at True Tech Tools, and I can PM anyone a 7% discount code.
I only use the probes, with core depressor and/or charging tee, and ditched the manual manifold gauges/hoses (don't even have them on the truck anymore). I do have separate Red and Blue quick connect gauges for recovery/vacuum, and quick checks.

RayWohlfarth

@mattmia2 not sure I know what they are called i went to a seminar and they recommended not using hoses

RayWohlfarth

@pecmsg I hear that

RayWohlfarth

Thanks @STEVEusaPA I will look into it 

mattmia2

Google sort of sorted it out. They are little temp and pressure sensing devices that can be placed at a remote observation points and talk it looks like bluetooth to a central monitor so you can measure the conditions in a system in real time for things like refrigerant charging.

ratio

Yeah, I use the Fieldpiece kit as well. Nice, and allows me to instrument a packaged unit, put the doors back on, & get valid numbers while I walk around & kick the tires. Neither the Fieldpiece app (graphing is poor) nor the measureQuick app (too complicated) are especially great, but they work.

Note that, for reasons that are ostensibly true, you must turn on Location to use them with an Android phone. The Apple app can be used without globally enabling Location, however. (About the only thing I like about iOS is that ability.)

RayWohlfarth

@ratio Thanks I appreciate the feed back. @mattmia2 A speaker at a seminar said these should be be used with ductless mini splits to limit refrigeration loss

mattmia2

Or I suppose a manifold set with valves at the fittings that actually hold(which I thought was a requirement now, at least in theory).

I can see where those systems are really like a window AC or dehumidifier where the total charge is tiny so small changes in charge make a big difference.

STEVEusaPA

RayWohlfarth said:

@ratio Thanks I appreciate the feed back. @mattmia2 A speaker at a seminar said these should be be used with ductless mini splits to limit refrigeration loss

They're good to use everywhere to limit loss from the refrigerant contained/released from in the hoses, as well as core depressors.
Some techs put gauges on for every service call, year after year. Eventually, that system would need refrigerant, and possibly cause the customer money, 'looking' for a refrigerant leak that isn't there. And with some of the more unscrupulous companies, an opportunity to get a customer to put in a whole new system or spend major money that wasn't necessary.

ChrisJ

STEVEusaPA said:

RayWohlfarth said:

@ratio Thanks I appreciate the feed back. @mattmia2 A speaker at a seminar said these should be be used with ductless mini splits to limit refrigeration loss

They're good to use everywhere to limit loss from the refrigerant contained/released from in the hoses, as well as core depressors.
Some techs put gauges on for every service call, year after year. Eventually, that system would need refrigerant, and possibly cause the customer money, 'looking' for a refrigerant leak that isn't there. And with some of the more unscrupulous companies, an opportunity to get a customer to put in a whole new system or spend major money that wasn't necessary.

I can't stand that.
In my opinion if the system appears to be working correctly the caps shouldn't be touched let alone connecting hoses etc. The system should remain closed including the caps which are a secondary seal unless it's absolutely necessary to connect to it to address a known issue.

Visual inspection as well as condenser cleaning, measuring current etc is all fine but the refrigerant system should remain closed and untouched unless it's for a specific reason.

mattmia2

STEVEusaPA said:

RayWohlfarth said:

@ratio Thanks I appreciate the feed back. @mattmia2 A speaker at a seminar said these should be be used with ductless mini splits to limit refrigeration loss

They're good to use everywhere to limit loss from the refrigerant contained/released from in the hoses, as well as core depressors.
Some techs put gauges on for every service call, year after year. Eventually, that system would need refrigerant, and possibly cause the customer money, 'looking' for a refrigerant leak that isn't there. And with some of the more unscrupulous companies, an opportunity to get a customer to put in a whole new system or spend major money that wasn't necessary.

My non-professional opinion is that you shouldn't be connecting gauges unless you see something that looks like a charge problem. I'm open to opinions to the contrary, but it seems like you can only make it worse if other measurements don't point to a sealed system problem.

STEVEusaPA

I agree with both of you. Clean the outdoor coil, check/clean inside coil, check/measure the airflow. Then only gauges if there appears to be a problem.

RayWohlfarth

I guess you could check superheat by using the temperature but its not as accurate. I was always taught to check the ac pressures yearly. My tech replaces the plastic cap he finds with a brass cap because the schrader valves always seem to leak. Guess that's why.

mattmia2

STEVEusaPA said:

Some techs put gauges on for every service call, year after year. Eventually, that system would need refrigerant, and possibly cause the customer money, 'looking' for a refrigerant leak that isn't there.

Even if there were a leak that leaked a pound or 2 of refrigerant over a decade, could you find that leak with ordinary service tools?

RPK

A lot of votes for the fieldpiece probes here.  I have been using the Testo Smartprobes for years and have no complaints.  They improved the range dramatically in the more recent version.  In addition to Bluetooth probes for refrigeration pressures, I find the temperature/humidity, pipe temp, and air velocity probes quite useful.  Setting a probe in the return air and supply air or at a supply diffuser sure beats running long cables everywhere or standing on a ladder waiting for a temperature measurement to settle in.  The trending/data logging functions of the apps associated with filedpiece or testo probes is a great diagnostic tool.  Rather than recording conditions at single moment in time, you can see what was happening over time, fluctuations, oscillations, etc.

RayWohlfarth

Thanks @RPK I appreciate it. I like the testo and will look further into them. I have a testo airflow hood and a combustion analyzer and like them both

ChrisJ

This is one of the things I really like about my own system......

Because I installed a sight glass right before the TXV, insulated the liquid line and installed a condenser fan controller the sight glass will completely clear after a few minutes regardless of the outdoor temperature.

If it doesn't.....I would likely see how my temp drop across the evaporator is vs the indoor humidity and judge whether or not I feel I need to dig deeper. For example, if my RH is in the 40s and I'm only seeing a 15 degree drop I'll likely start digging. If I see a 18-22 degree drop I probably won't.

To be honest, with a TXV I can hear when it's not getting constant liquid, or if it's hunting even without a sight glass but the sight glass is a nice thing to have, even with 410A.

But that get's a whole lot more iffy without a fan controller, especially when it's cool out. I'd expect a 410A system would struggle to clear the glass even with a ambient in the 70s without a fan controller.

STEVEusaPA

mattmia2 said:

STEVEusaPA said:

Some techs put gauges on for every service call, year after year. Eventually, that system would need refrigerant, and possibly cause the customer money, 'looking' for a refrigerant leak that isn't there.

Even if there were a leak that leaked a pound or 2 of refrigerant over a decade, could you find that leak with ordinary service tools?

I don't understand your question. What do you consider 'ordinary service tools' to 'find that leak'?

mattmia2

STEVEusaPA said:

mattmia2 said:

STEVEusaPA said:

Some techs put gauges on for every service call, year after year. Eventually, that system would need refrigerant, and possibly cause the customer money, 'looking' for a refrigerant leak that isn't there.

Even if there were a leak that leaked a pound or 2 of refrigerant over a decade, could you find that leak with ordinary service tools?

I don't understand your question. What do you consider 'ordinary service tools' to 'find that leak'?

Electronic refrigerant detectors, pressure testing, dyes, maybe a few other things I'm missing. It seems like the concentration with that small a leak will be incredibly low.

ChrisJ

mattmia2 said:

STEVEusaPA said:

mattmia2 said:

STEVEusaPA said:

Some techs put gauges on for every service call, year after year. Eventually, that system would need refrigerant, and possibly cause the customer money, 'looking' for a refrigerant leak that isn't there.

Even if there were a leak that leaked a pound or 2 of refrigerant over a decade, could you find that leak with ordinary service tools?

I don't understand your question. What do you consider 'ordinary service tools' to 'find that leak'?

Electronic refrigerant detectors, pressure testing, dyes, maybe a few other things I'm missing. It seems like the concentration with that small a leak will be incredibly low.

I'm no expert but I think oil / dust is your best friend for such issues.

mattmia2

My mom's system has quick connect fittings that leak somewhere around that rate and there is no sign anywhere of oil or dirt sticking to oil.

ChrisJ

mattmia2 said:

My mom's system has quick connect fittings that leak somewhere around that rate and there is no sign anywhere of oil or dirt sticking to oil.

mattmia2

The liquid line fitting on the evaporator has a distributor that connects to a bunch of tiny tubes that connect to various points on the evaporator so it would be difficult to replace that fitting, adding half a pound or so every 4 or 5 years seems like the most practical solution. Reading the instructions for the quick connect fittings I suspect the leak because they weren't seated properly when they were installed, there is a flare fitting built in to them that seats if they are tightened fully and if the guy that installed it didn't read the label that said to add 10 oz of refrigerant when pairing that condenser and evaporator I doubt he read the instructions for the fittings either.

STEVEusaPA

We're getting off topic. What does this have to do with probes?

Mike_Sheppard

I couldn’t decide either so I got them both.

Haven’t had any problems with either. I usually just grab whatever is closest when I open the door to my van.

I highly suggest getting some Schrader core depressors to throw in your kit as well.

ratio

FWIW, something happened to the Fieldpiece app on my tablet yesterday, it couldn't connect to the intertubes so it wouldn't work. Irritating, but I can just use the measureQuick app, right? Nope, no easy way to just get temps to display without going through the whole rigamarole of setting up a job, etc. (At least, I couldn't find a way—and half the screen was basically ads.) <sigh> Is usability testing really too much to ask for?

TL;DR: no internetz no worky; good apps are rare

RayWohlfarth

Thanks everyone I think I am getting the Fieldpiece ones.

ratio

As a follow-up to my complaint above, it seems that Fieldpiece has an updated app & the old one was shut down. IDK why it didn't auto-update, but after I uninstalled it & installed the new one it worked. Unfortunately, I haven't yet had a chance to really exercise it, but judging by the appearance I'm hoping for a rewrite that makes everything work better.

GW

Ratio- yes that drove me batty. The new mQ revision. I pasted a screenshot and one of the Facebook pages and a couple people get back to me saying you can edit the home screen. So that’s what I did. You want classic view. You want to customize the Home Screen and uncheck all of that poofy stuff 

i use Testo, my guy uses Field Piece. His Bloo tooth may travel farther than mine 

GW

Oh shoot you’re using field piece app? Ok sorry never mind 

ratio

@GW, I got all the stuff turned off that'll turn off in the mQ home screen, but all I want is the readings from the sensors. I couldn't figure out how to do that. I didn't spend a lot of time on it though, maybe it's one of those 'intuitive' buttons that I haven't figured out yet.

All apps suck.

GW

Ok you are on mQ? Then scroll down to the very bottom and click Customize Start Screen, Classic View is what you want 

ratio

I'll give it a try, thanks for the tip!