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hang on to R22 equipment

jumper
jumper Member Posts: 2,384
in A-C, Heat Pumps & Refrigeration
New standards allow new large HC refrigerant equipment.
So maybe replacing R22 with propane will be allowed?
Next question is can we make our own propane refrigerant from fuel propane?

Comments

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 10,820
    Is propane the right hydrocarbon or should it be something heavier?

    There is always the option to just build a system that doesn't leak...
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 16,260
    edited May 2022
    jumper said:

    New standards allow new large HC refrigerant equipment.
    So maybe replacing R22 with propane will be allowed?
    Next question is can we make our own propane refrigerant from fuel propane?

    BBQ Propane etc is typically considered dirty and is often different blends so it's inconsistent.
    I highly doubt it would ever be allowed on a professional level no matter how much you try and filter it.

    That being said, I know of someone that has used unfiltered BBQ fuel many times as refrigerant with success at least in the short term, but not on a professional level.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 6,505
    Regular BBQ Propane is explicitly banned from use as a refrigerant by the EPA. I can't site the exact rule but I remember that on my EPA 608 test.

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 10,820
    Perhaps it is banned because of the whole explosion thing, not so much because it is BBQ grade?
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 16,260
    edited May 2022
    mattmia2 said:

    Perhaps it is banned because of the whole explosion thing, not so much because it is BBQ grade?

    Please read my post above.

    Why do you feel LPG in an air conditioner is more dangerous than it is on anything else we use?

    Stove with burners you control manually, clothes dryer etc, all connected with either piping with threaded joints or tubing with flare connections often connected to a 500 gallon tank.

    But an air conditioner with all brazed connections, no valves that can be opened by a user in a system that holds a few pounds is dangerous?
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    MikeAmann
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 10,820
    That really wasn't the question. The question was about the EPA exam question. The EPA rules explicitly ban flammable refrigerants. That is most likely what the exam question is getting at.
  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 5,271
    LP AKA R-290 is allowed but in very small quantities, 6 or 8 oz total charge for small refrigeration systems. 1/4-HP or less.

    Doubtful you'll ever see it in A/C equipment.
  • jumper
    jumper Member Posts: 2,384
    ChrisJ said:


    That being said, I know of someone that has used unfiltered BBQ fuel many times as refrigerant with success at least in the short term, but not on a professional level.

    I also. Especially when one cannot repair leak like sometimes for car a/c. I heard that somebody was jailed for "fixing" car a/c s that way.
  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 5,271
    ChrisJ said:

    mattmia2 said:

    Perhaps it is banned because of the whole explosion thing, not so much because it is BBQ grade?

    Please read my post above.

    Why do you feel LPG in an air conditioner is more dangerous than it is on anything else we use?

    Stove with burners you control manually, clothes dryer etc, all connected with either piping with threaded joints or tubing with flare connections often connected to a 500 gallon tank.

    But an air conditioner with all brazed connections, no valves that can be opened by a user in a system that holds a few pounds is dangerous?
    Its more the issues during a fire.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 16,260
    I think I need to freshen up because it looks like a lot has changed since I did my 608 and 609. 609 especially, since that's been over 1.... 18 years holy crap 18........ years.

    Where did time go? :(

    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 16,364
    edited May 2022
    R-32. It's already here it's part of R-410 and Daiken is heavy into it. Other countries are using is now. I posted a link here, but it didn't copy right so I deleted it.


    Just google R-32 Plenty of info on it.....its coming

    STEVEusaPA
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 10,820
    ChrisJ said:

    I think I need to freshen up because it looks like a lot has changed since I did my 608 and 609. 609 especially, since that's been over 1.... 18 years holy crap 18........ years.

    Where did time go? :(

    That is about when I contacted a few of the places listed by the epa as giving the exam and of the few that even responded none were actually giving the exam so I found someone selling r22 that wasn't asking many questions.
  • MikeAmann
    MikeAmann Member Posts: 1,067
    jumper said:

    ChrisJ said:


    That being said, I know of someone that has used unfiltered BBQ fuel many times as refrigerant with success at least in the short term, but not on a professional level.

    I also. Especially when one cannot repair leak like sometimes for car a/c. I heard that somebody was jailed for "fixing" car a/c s that way.
    Canned air dusters work as automotive refrigerant also.

  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 23,224
    The Viessmann A2WHPs are r290, LP
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    GGross
  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 5,271
    hot_rod said:

    The Viessmann A2WHPs are r290, LP

    Is it allowed in the USA?
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 16,364
    They're using R-290 on refrigeration in the USA. But only in units with a very small charge.

    R-32 is being used in Japan & Australia

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