Weil McClain EG 65 Steam boiler

SMITTY64

Pedmec, Please see the attached pictures. The boiler fired up this morning and was making whooshing and banging noises after they changed the piping around. Then the boiler started shaking and suddenly the water dropped in the sight glass immediately. I shut off the emergency switch and the water came back to level but the whole boiler was shaking when it was on. IT was very scary. Please see the attached pictures any advice would help.

SMITTY64

They did put in a skimport and I skimmed for hours until clear.

KC_Jones

It's pretty clear to me not only does the contractor not understand the basics of steam, they don't understand basic piping principals.

It's still not piped correctly, it's much closer, but that bushing in the horizontal is a huge no no, and specifically called out in the manual.

The bushing in the horizontal will cause water to pool up behind it and it's only choice is to shoot up into the system, which can cause banging.

Question, are they even looking at the manual at any point?  Someone with basic piping skills and that manual can easily pipe it correctly, I'm a homeowner and I've done it.  Sorry, but its sad that you are having to pay for incompetence.

ChrisJ

Yeah...

That piping is still wrong and will never do the job correctly.

ethicalpaul

The "header drain/equalizer" path is so convoluted the water is likely backing up there also. And the fact that water is getting to the header tells me the supply piping is too small or there is a bad water quality (oil) problem still there.

IMO in a boiler with sufficient steam supply to the header, no significant water should even make it to the header...the header should only have to help to dry out the steam (remove water droplets). Is the single supply vertical on this boiler sufficient?...it's a big boiler.

Good ear hearing the whooshing sound, @SMITTY64. For your reference, here is what is happening in your pipes, but even worse than this because in my video, my drop header removes most of the water, but we know your water is going up all the way into your main, that's why your water level drops:

https://youtu.be/jvt8qxBaRJU

In this video I added a couple squirts of cutting oil into my boiler to show what happens.

STEAM DOCTOR

The bushing in the header is certainly a water trap. They should have used a reducing elbow. The funny piping to the equalizer is not such a problem, as long as it is properly pitched throughout. That skim port ain't kosher. 

BobC

You also have a couple of returns connected together just about at the waterline in the first picture. All returns should be connected well bellow the waterline. They should fix this while getting rid of that unfortunate reducer on the horizontal header.

Bob

pedmec

as noted by multiple fellow contractor the bushing is a no go. never reduce from the header to the equalizer horizontally. its creating a water trap. nipple then a reducing 90. you should also have at least a 6" nipple coming out of the run of the tee before adding a 90. allows any condensate to separate from the steam before the turbulence created by the elbow holds it in suspension and causing banging.

clean the boiler water. I've found tsp works great but you can't let it out into your system because it will clean everything, including corroded piping in system that wasn't leaking but is now leaking because the corrosion had it sealed before. your skim port is not functional. should be as big as possible to get the oil off the top. easier to skim that way.

those two are absolute to getting the boiler to function correctly. and why didn't he drop the equalizer into the return tapping on the left side of the boiler? would have made the piping easier. more expensive piping but definitely save in labor.

ethicalpaul, great video. always amazed as how dynamic steam is when confined in an environment. once saw the traveling boiler that weil mclain had with the glass piping. absolutely stunning. it wasn't anything i had envisioned in my mind. extremely violent. made me feel that 24" riser out of the boiler was still not long enough, lol. i hope you got those glass fittings free. they don't look cheap

EdTheHeaterMan

I feel sorry for the customer here but I also feel sorry for the contractor. The contractor took on something that he was clearly unqualified for. He is learning the hard way that Steam is not the same as Hot Water. He will get it right eventually. So close ...but at least one more repipe is needed.

ChrisJ

EdTheHeaterMan said:

I feel sorry for the customer here but I also feel sorry for the contractor. The contractor took on something that he was clearly unqualified for. He is learning the hard way that Steam is not the same as Hot Water. He will get it right eventually. So close ...but at least one more repipe is needed.

To be fair,
If you took on a job doing something you knew nothing about, wouldn't you take extra time to look at the installation instructions?

Unless I miscounted this is the third attempt and they still didn't come close to matching the cartoon drawing in the instructions supplied with the boiler.

That's all they had to do......
Look at the chart, use the size piping the chart says and then match the simple picture. Three times.

Maybe I'm being unfair but I don't think so.

EdTheHeaterMan

ChrisJ said:

To be fair,
If you took on a job doing something you knew nothing about, wouldn't you take extra time to look at the installation instructions?

I certainly would. I agree. I remember my first steam boiler in the 1980's. I went to the supply house and asked the manager if I could take 2 of every size pipe nipple in 2" and every size nipple in 1-1/2" and extra fittings AND if anything that did not have pipe dope on it could be returned the next day. He knew the drill because I purchased a steam boiler from him, he agreed. Read the manual the night before about 10 times. I also looked over my notes from a Dan Holohan Steam Seminar. The next morning I woke up and worked for 12 hours on the job. No REpipe needed

But who has that dedication today? Everything you need to know is on the internet. Who reads instruction manuals today anyway?

I picked 5 repipe because I'm confident the contractor won't get it right the next time. But he should get the header correct on try #4.

But I do agree with you

SteamingatMohawk

@ethicalpaul Nice try on the size of the piping, but the actual inside diameter is the correct number to use for comparison. Schedule 40 pipe is most common. The inside diameter is 2.067 for 2", 3.068 for 3". From Lost Art, page 78, the 2" area is 3.36sqin, 3" is 7.39 sqin. So, a single 3" is larger than 2 @ 2" (6.72sqin).

ChrisJ

SteamingatMohawk said:

@ethicalpaul Nice try on the size of the piping, but the actual inside diameter is the correct number to use for comparison. Schedule 40 pipe is most common. The inside diameter is 2.067 for 2", 3.068 for 3". From Lost Art, page 78, the 2" area is 3.36sqin, 3" is 7.39 sqin. So, a single 3" is larger than 2 @ 2" (6.72sqin).

This isn't a nuclear power plant.................

I'm not saying, I'm just saying............

ethicalpaul

SteamingatMohawk said:

@ethicalpaul Nice try on the size of the piping, but the actual inside diameter is the correct number to use for comparison. Schedule 40 pipe is most common. The inside diameter is 2.067 for 2", 3.068 for 3". From Lost Art, page 78, the 2" area is 3.36sqin, 3" is 7.39 sqin. So, a single 3" is larger than 2 @ 2" (6.72sqin).

I said I agreed that a single 3” was more area than two 2” (in March)

sorry about being 3% off regarding the diameter of pipe.

One 3" pipe: 3.14 * (3/2)^2 = 7.07
Two 2" pipes: (3.14 * (2/2)^2) * 2 = 6.28

So I think you are right @STEAM DOCTOR 

SteamingatMohawk

@ethicalpaul Holy cow! I'm losing my mind. I misread your statement and apologize.

ethicalpaul

Goodness knows I’ve been there!

ChrisJ

ethicalpaul said:

Goodness knows I’ve been there!

Been there?  Do you ever leave there? 

Tim_D

The near boiler piping is incorrect. That bull headed tee on the supply and the way that the equalizer is piped in can cause issues. with that said, if the banging is not in the boiler room the near boiler piping is probably not the cause. If the banging is out in the system at or near the rads I would be looking the piping. I suspect that you have condensate collecting somewhere and when the hot steam hits the cold condensate on the next cycle you get a bang. Also, make sure that all radiator valves are 100% open.