Need help with triangle tube prestige 110

cmurra6745

Hello I’ve had an issue with my domestic temperature dropping and running out of water when showering . My shower head is 1.8 gpm My t and p valve was leaking I’ve had it replaced as well as thermostat and 3 way mixing valve , expansion tank. Finally they figured out it was expansion tank even though triangle tube said it wasn’t . every time I use DHW it runs out of hot water and domestic temperature drops to 68 degrees after about 8 min while it’s reheatingThe dhw kicks on and starts reheating the new water but doesn’t recirculate the heated water to the shower . I’d say I get about 7-8 min of hot water This is when I even have one shower running .  .I run out of hot water quickly and since it’s on demand I thought it shouldn’t be . I’ve had all the work done by the plumber but still having these issues of running out of hot water HELP!!

Zman

Do you have a prestige excellence combi? Did it ever work correctly?
If you watch the boiler 3 way valve and feel the pipes, is all the heat going to the little indirect during a call for DHW?
You may have an incorrect control setting. It is too easy to accidentally change a critical setting on triangle tubes.

unclejohn

In MHO those systems need a thorough cleaning and flush with Fernox or some other good product. You also need a dirt mag or you will have 3 way valve problems. 

cmurra6745

Zman said:

Do you have a prestige excellence combi? Did it ever work correctly? If you watch the boiler 3 way valve and feel the pipes, is all the heat going to the little indirect during a call for DHW? You may have an incorrect control setting. It is too easy to accidentally change a critical setting on triangle tubes.

Hey zman thanks for the reply. Yes it was working correctly prior to the cleaning and testing and the replacement of the parts chasing the issue . It is a combo excellence yes. When I feel piping while DHW call the small exterior piping outside of boiler gets cool because the domestic temp drops . Interior the AB and B side of three way is very hot and A side is cool as I believe that’s heating side . If I reset all settings would that help? I can hear water flushing around heating element and everything yet it doesn’t circulate to faucet to stay warm . It does reheat rather quickly from 70 degrees to the call heat but once showering again uses it all and doesn’t keep up ..

cmurra6745

unclejohn said:

In MHO those systems need a thorough cleaning and flush with Fernox or some other good product. You also need a dirt mag or you will have 3 way valve problems. 

Thanks for the reply

3 way internals we’re replaced ( the cartridge ) and system was flushed and cleaned .not sure if with fernox or not though! 

kcopp

Which control? red LED lights or the LCD display ?

cmurra6745

kcopp said:

Which control? red LED lights or the LCD display ?

I’m sorry how do I find out which control type it is ? And no no codes or lights .. unit was installed in 10/2014 and the plumber try at came out to fix leak who took way too many steps to fix it ( therm, t and p valve, three way mixing capsule, finally an expansion tank that was the fix ) said it may be going .. it’s 8 years old .. can’t be was maintained and cleaned yearly 

kcopp

https://triangletube.com/documentation/boilers/prestige-ps-documents
This is the older version. (mcba control)

Did he replace the float / Hy-vent on top of the boiler?
If there is air in the top of the tank the boiler cant transfer heat well...

cmurra6745

kcopp said:

https://triangletube.com/documentation/boilers/prestige-ps-documents This is the older version. (mcba control) Did he replace the float / Hy-vent on top of the boiler? If there is air in the top of the tank the boiler cant transfer heat well...

Nope mine has a screen and four way directional buttons ..  and no he did not but when he replaced 3 way valve he bled system completely so there shouldn’t be air trapped .. 

here is the type I have 

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Triangle-Tube-PTE110-86000-BTU-Output-Prestige-Excellence-Condensed-Boiler-w-Built-In-Indirect-Water-Heater-TriMax-Control-NG

control type not exact boiler

Zman

That controller is pretty intuitive. When you have a call for hot water, does it immediately show the call and ramp up to 100%. What are the boiler supply and return temps during the call? Does the heat stop working until the hot water demand goes away?

cmurra6745

Zman said:

That controller is pretty intuitive. When you have a call for hot water, does it immediately show the call and ramp up to 100%. What are the boiler supply and return temps during the call? Does the heat stop working until the hot water demand goes away?

It does start the call fairly quickly about a couple min after . And yea it fires 100% but doesn’t keep domestic temp up that drops steadily. Until it reaches 70degrees from150 and that drop takes about 10 min . The supply and return temps are in the 170’s . And yes DHW priority is working when the call is on for DHW but the domestic temp does not increase fast enough to keep it from cooling to where I run out of hot water 

Zman

I wonder if the flow rates are higher than you are assuming. Have you tried clocking your water meter with just the shower running?

cmurra6745

Zman said:

I wonder if the flow rates are higher than you are assuming. Have you tried clocking your water meter with just the shower running?

No but before the service I never had an issue 

cmurra6745

Zman said:

I wonder if the flow rates are higher than you are assuming. Have you tried clocking your water meter with just the shower running?

And the flow rate shouldn’t have changed it’s the same shower head as when it was working fine . My concern is it not supplying the DHW with hot water to keep the temp up but reheating it per the control panel . So it’s pretty much saying it’s heating it but not mixing it to raise the temp with storage water 

Zman

If it is quickly firing to 100% and staying there and all the heat is going to the heat exchanger, you have a puzzle on your hands.
I would start looking for hot/cold cross connects and potential gas pressure/ combustion issues.

Do you have a record of the actual work performed?
Have you watched the whole cycle to be sure the boiler is running 100% the whole time with no modulation? Feel the pipes while this is going on. If there is hot water going out of the boiler but it is not reaching the shower, that would point to a cross-connect or domestic mixing issue. Just touching the pipes is a troubleshooting method often overlooked.

cmurra6745

Zman said:

If it is quickly firing to 100% and staying there and all the heat is going to the heat exchanger, you have a puzzle on your hands. I would start looking for hot/cold cross connects and potential gas pressure/ combustion issues. Do you have a record of the actual work performed? Have you watched the whole cycle to be sure the boiler is running 100% the whole time with no modulation? Feel the pipes while this is going on. If there is hot water going out of the boiler but it is not reaching the shower, that would point to a cross-connect or domestic mixing issue. Just touching the pipes is a troubleshooting method often overlooked.

So when demand happens the water starts to heat but never puts it back out and the domestic temp drops and drops and only reheats after the shower is turned off . Yea I have documentation of all the work

cmurra6745

There is no hot water leaving the boiler domestic side when the call for it is on . It just drains the tank and water gets colder and colder until I have to turn off shower then it finally starts to reheat even though it was firing the whole time

Zman

It sounds like a bad control setting. I wonder if the tech changed something he shouldn't have.

clammy

What indirect tank are you using or is this a combustion unit ? If a indirect has anyone checked the drip tube on the cold water feed if this is broken it will by pass cold water to the hot outlet instead of feeding to the bottom of the tank and mixing w portable hot water in the tank already . My though is if the boilers supply and return are hot then one of two things is happening your tank is dirty because your not transferring any heat to the tank being it most likely just below your domestics water set point and not much transfer happening , if the drip tube is broken u will not get much capacity and when the boilers fires for the tank it will reach its limit quickly and seemly nottransfwr much heat . I would have some look into replacing the drip tube for starters ,if it’s traingle tube and then it’s a good possibility Peace and good luck clammy ps if it’s got a plate exchanger it either that or the 3 way which u stated was changed.

Shane_2

Sounds like a problem with the three-way valve. OP said cartridge was replaced. Was just the top replaced?
Maybe the entire body for the three-way valve?

cmurra6745

Shane_2 said:

Sounds like a problem with the three-way valve. OP said cartridge was replaced. Was just the top replaced? Maybe the entire body for the three-way valve?

Yes cartridge was replaced with new ! 

cmurra6745

I did reset to stock and no difference 

cmurra6745

clammy said:

What indirect tank are you using or is this a combustion unit ? If a indirect has anyone checked the drip tube on the cold water feed if this is broken it will by pass cold water to the hot outlet instead of feeding to the bottom of the tank and mixing w portable hot water in the tank already . My though is if the boilers supply and return are hot then one of two things is happening your tank is dirty because your not transferring any heat to the tank being it most likely just below your domestics water set point and not much transfer happening , if the drip tube is broken u will not get much capacity and when the boilers fires for the tank it will reach its limit quickly and seemly nottransfwr much heat . I would have some look into replacing the drip tube for starters ,if it’s traingle tube and then it’s a good possibility Peace and good luck clammy ps if it’s got a plate exchanger it either that or the 3 way which u stated was changed.

Thank you for your input I will look into getting the part myself 

cmurra6745

@clammy I sent you a pm

Zman

Your prestige excellence has a little indirect heater located inside the cabinet. There is a 3 way valve that turns to switch the unit from heating to domestic water production.
You either have a faulty valve actuator or the unit is incorrectly programmed. Someone handy with an electric multimeter could determine which.
Triangle tube uses the same controller for many models and it is super easy to accidentally change a setting. It is likely that you have a bad setting in the controller, resetting to default may not put it at the correct setting for that model.

Derheatmeister

Check the Diptube..

Hgold4423

So what was the result here ?