New Boiler Recs

boyntoncharlie

Hi all! First time poster here
we are looking to replace our 1985 HB Smith oil feed boiler with something newer/ more efficient. Our oil company has given us quotes on three options: 

​Option 1:  Peerless WBV-4 cast iron boiler with a Beckett AFG burner.

​Option 2:  Buderus G-115 cast iron boiler with a Riello burner. This is a low mass, triple pass ​​​   boiler.

​Option 3:  Pure Pro Trio P-4 low mass boiler with a Beckett AFG burner.

We are in the Hudson valley, ny and are also considering getting a split level heat pump at some point in the near future for AC and supplemental heating. Our biggest interest in the new boiler would be efficiency so which of these options address that most? 

Thanks!

DJD775

Skip option 1. Any appropriately sized triple pass boiler will work. System 2000 is another option if you have a dealer close by.

Jamie Hall

Did anyone do a heat loss calculation? On the building, if this is hot water, or on the radiators, if steam? If not, why not?

SuperTech

Hi, I'm in the Hudson Valley as well. I agree that the first step is figuring out the heat loss of the structure, no sense in buying more boiler than you need.  You only have one chance to do it right.  

The Peerless is a good basic boiler that will last a long time. I have one in my own house but I would rather have a three pass boiler but the difference in savings doesn't make it worth changing.  My too choice and favorite boiler is the Energy Kinetics System 2000. Plenty of companies in our area install and service the Energy Kinetics boilers. 

Just be aware that the quality of the installation determines how well any boiler performs. My Peerless will outperform a poorly installed three pass boiler. Choose your installing contractor wisely, anyone who doesn't perform a heat loss calculation should be avoided. 

boyntoncharlie

SuperTech said:

Hi, I'm in the Hudson Valley as well. I agree that the first step is figuring out the heat loss of the structure, no sense in buying more boiler than you need.  You only have one chance to do it right.  

The Peerless is a good basic boiler that will last a long time. I have one in my own house but I would rather have a three pass boiler but the difference in savings doesn't make it worth changing.  My too choice and favorite boiler is the Energy Kinetics System 2000. Plenty of companies in our area install and service the Energy Kinetics boilers. 

Just be aware that the quality of the installation determines how well any boiler performs. My Peerless will outperform a poorly installed three pass boiler. Choose your installing contractor wisely, anyone who doesn't perform a heat loss calculation should be avoided. 

Hey since you’re in the Hudson valley, who is your provider? We use Taylor Oil (near Millbrook) and they’ve been very helpful and on top of things so I assume they the heat loss calculation before giving these options but I’ll ask to make sure!

boyntoncharlie

Jamie Hall said:

Did anyone do a heat loss calculation? On the building, if this is hot water, or on the radiators, if steam? If not, why not?

It is hot water baseboard heat. I assume they did a heat loss before making recs but I’ll ask to be sure! 

DJD775

While I agree with the concept of having a heat loss calculation performed there is a limit to how small of an oil boiler you can get. If your house is sufficiently small the contractor could recommend the smallest available without a proper heat loss calc. If they recommend anything above the smallest without a heat loss calc run away. For example I live in a modern insulted 2500 sqft house in RI. My heat loss calculated with the Slant Fin app and the Robert O'Brien method both come out below the smallest oil boiler available. So in my area if a pro went to a normally insulated 1000 sq ft house I wouldn't mind them using their experience to recommend the smallest oil boiler.

SuperTech

I wouldn't recommend buying oil or replacement equipment from any of the well known oil companies in our area. I'd recommend getting oil and burner service from independent companies.  From what I have seen the oil companies don't bother with heat loss calculations. 

Get multiple estimates, most companies will do them for free. And yes there's a limit to how small an oil fired boiler or furnace is.

boyntoncharlie

SuperTech said:

I wouldn't recommend buying oil or replacement equipment from any of the well known oil companies in our area. I'd recommend getting oil and burner service from independent companies.  From what I have seen the oil companies don't bother with heat loss calculations. 

Get multiple estimates, most companies will do them for free. And yes there's a limit to how small an oil fired boiler or furnace is.

What do you mean by “oil companies”? Can you recommend some names of independent companies in our area?

cross_skier

Burnham Megasteam is a good option.  I have never heard of a Megasteam failing, they are Energy Star rated which should help if you ever decide to sell.

JayMcCay

All - Good comments and thoughts.
boyntoncharlie - I'm happy to answer any questions you may have and talk about real efficiency with Energy Kinetics systems.

Regards

Jay
jmccay@energykinetics.com
908 328-7154 mobile

Ironman

cross_skier said:

Burnham Megasteam is a good option.  I have never heard of a Megasteam failing, they are Energy Star rated which should help if you ever decide to sell.

MegaSteam is a great STEAM boiler, but the OP has hot water BBs.

Ironman

The Buderus is the best constructed and easiest to clean. Its cast iron is actually flexible and very resistant to thermal shock.

Keeping the heat exchanger surface clean is essential to long term efficiency. A 1/16” of soot can result in an 18% reduction in heat transfer efficiency. The smooth straight passages of the Buderus make cleaning very easy and simple.

If it were my house and I had oil, that’s what I’d go with; however, as Super Tech pointed out, the installer is by far the most important part of the equation. Give diligence to finding the best installer. 

boyntoncharlie

Ironman said:

The Buderus is the best constructed and easiest to clean. It’s cast iron is actually flexible and very resistant to thermal shock.

Keeping the heat exchanger surface clean is essential to long term efficiency. A 1/16” of soot can result in an 18% reduction in heat transfer efficiency. The smooth straight passages of the Buderus make cleaning very easy and simple.

If it were my house and I had oil, that’s what I’d go with; however, as Super Tech pointed out, the installer is by far the most important part of the equation. Give diligence to finding the best installer. 

Do you base your search off “best installer” from online reviews? We’re new to the area so we have been using the same provider as previous owner… they’re a smaller family business and have been great for what we’ve needed them for so far but I’m not sure how you really determine who’s the “best”

Ironman

It’s not easy. Generally speaking, it will usually be a smaller shop. Avoid the ones that a geared to big advertising, promotions and other gimmicks.

Ask your friends, neighbors and coworkers for recommendations. Ask the ones that you’re considering for referrals and pics of their recent jobs.

Try the contractor locator on this site.

nde

Go with the buderus or peerless if $ matters as should be a slight bit cheaper. Smaller independent that has been great so far? Seems like a no brainer to use them if they rep both brands. If you can get a call back and actual appointment in current labor/shortage environment you are doing well, Many boiler models are back ordered weeks to months and competent trades people are overwhelmed with work requests.........had a roof put on a few months ago and the roofer is turning down work left and right due to labor shortage, supplies were backordered and pushed out weeks, blah blah. Took 7 months from estimate to completion vs "normal" 4-8 weeks. Same with tree guy, booked out months. Both had voice mails that say as much, and if emergency call another person!

Nightmare really if you have any emergency situations.