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Extremely loud gorton vents

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Jay85
Jay85 Member Posts: 34
I installed brand new gorton vents on the entire house and the second floor vents are extrememly loud. All 3 radiators in the apartment gush air extremely loud and shut once steam fills the radiators. But the air rushing out is the equivalent of an air compressor air hose. This problem is only on the second floor. The vents are gorton #6 and #c. The main in the basement in 2" pipe with 2 gorton #2 as main vents. 
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  • ScottSecor
    ScottSecor Member Posts: 856
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    We prefer to use #4 for the room with the thermostat.   #5 for the easy to heat rooms.  #6 for the hard to heat rooms.  We try not yo use C or D vents.  Our preference is one (or occasionally two) Gorton #2 main vents on the ends of steam mains.
    ethicalpaul
  • ScottSecor
    ScottSecor Member Posts: 856
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    I have heard rumors of quality control issues lately.  Not sure this is the case as we've been using Gorton vents almost exclusively for forty years with very few problems. 
  • Jay85
    Jay85 Member Posts: 34
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    Thanks for the reply. Why do you try not to use c or d vents? Also, it is a 3 family house. Why would the second floor be insanely loud but the first and 3rd operate normally? 
  • bburd
    bburd Member Posts: 917
    edited January 2022
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    The system pressure should be 2 psig or less; preferably 1.5 or less. Loud air vents are usually a symptom of clogged or missing main vents or excess steam pressure.

    Is the pressuretrol set and operating correctly? Sometimes the pigtail that connects the pressuretrol to the boiler will clog and prevent the control from sensing the system pressure.

    Bburd
    Hap_Hazzardcross_skier
  • Hap_Hazzard
    Hap_Hazzard Member Posts: 2,846
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    Jay85 said:

    Why do you try not to use c or d vents?

    Sometimes if the venting is too fast, the steam can shoot through and hit the vent, causing it to close, before all the air is vented, so the radiator never fills completely.
    Jay85 said:

    Why would the second floor be insanely loud but the first and 3rd operate normally?

    Because the second floor is farther from the boiler, so the pipes are longer, so there is more air to vent.
    Just another DIYer | King of Prussia, PA
    1983(?) Peerless G-561-W-S | 3" drop header, CG400-1090, VXT-24
    cross_skier
  • Jay85
    Jay85 Member Posts: 34
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    I dont think the radiators are venting too fast. They are super hot. Like too hot. I will try and buy a new pig tail tomorrow. I cleaned the old one out. Maybe I didnt do a good enough job. 
  • bburd
    bburd Member Posts: 917
    edited January 2022
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    The hole in the boiler and the hole in the bottom of the pressuretrol may also be clogged. A brass pigtail will not clog as quickly as a steel one.

    With a standard pressuretrol, you want to set the cutin on the front as low as it will go without disconnecting the mechanism; this is adjusted with the screw on the top, not by pushing the indicator on the front. Then remove the cover and set the white differential wheel inside to 1.

    Bburd
  • Jay85
    Jay85 Member Posts: 34
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    bburd said:
    The hole in the boiler and the hole in the bottom of the pressuretrol may also be clogged. A brass pigtail will not clog as quickly as a steel one.

    With a standard pressuretrol, you want to set the cutin on the front as low as it will go without disconnecting the mechanism; this is adjusted with the screw on the top, not by pushing the indicator on the front. Then remove the cover and set the white differential wheel inside to 1.
    So are you thinking the system may have too much pressure, and isnt tripping the pressuretrol due to a clog?
    bburd
  • cross_skier
    cross_skier Member Posts: 201
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    Yup, that's what he is saying.  Vents start to complain when pressures reach 2psi
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,706
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    Personally I find vents are annoying above 1/4 psi.

    2 psi would drive me nuts.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    KC_Jones
  • cross_skier
    cross_skier Member Posts: 201
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    You may be right, I only go over 1psi when I do my blowdowns ion a warm day in September and I am in the basement when I do it.
  • Jay85
    Jay85 Member Posts: 34
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    I ordered a new pigtail today. Should arrive on tuesday. Ill keep you all posted if this was the issue. Thank you to all who chimed in.
  • SteamingatMohawk
    SteamingatMohawk Member Posts: 1,008
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    If the pressuretrol is an older version, it may have a mercury switch, which is sensitive to the position relative to the pigtail. The simple answer is to have the pressuretrol perpendicular to the coil of the pigtail, because when the pigtail sees pressure, it tries to straighten out and rotates ever so much. If the coil is in line with the pressuretrol, it changes the angle of the switch as pressure increases and can change the actual trip points.

    If there is not a pressure switch, there is no effect.
  • SteamingatMohawk
    SteamingatMohawk Member Posts: 1,008
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    Correction, mercury switch, not pressure switch.
  • Jay85
    Jay85 Member Posts: 34
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    I removed the pigtail and it is not blocked for sure. I changed the pressuretrol to .5/1. The vents on tje second floor are still screaming. Second floor tenant wasnt home but I stood in the hallway and heard them loudly in the hallway, then I heard them shut off. What else could it be?
  • Jay85
    Jay85 Member Posts: 34
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    I also just spoke to the 1st and third floor tenants ane their vents are really loud too. They just arent bothered. All vents are brand new gortons as per the recommendation of the rep on the phone. Like I said, standing in the hallway with the door closed I can hear air gushing. I have lived in many buildings with steam heat and never had any rads this loud. 
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,706
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    tommay said:

    If one or two vents aren't working properly, or there is a leak somewhere else, system pressure is not building up fast enough or enough to close the vents and the boiler keeps running. Air blowing through a hole makes whistling...hot water vapor escaping while this is happening fills the vents with water and they may not operate correctly...taking longer to close or not close at all.

    Hi tommay,
    Pressure doesn't close the vents. They close on temperature from steam touching either a capsule filled with an alcohol mixture or a bimetal spring.

    Vents on a steam system will always have condensate in them. It's just the nature of the beast.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    ethicalpaulKC_Jones
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,706
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    tommay said:

    So what is that thing bouncing around inside when you shake them? How come they don't work and shut off when they are upside down or partially full of water?

    Depends.
    Most like Hoffman and Gorton vents have a float that will rise up and shut it if it overfills with water, in theory. I've heard they rarely actually work.

    They do shut off if you turn them upside down from the weight of the assembly (Float etc).

    https://youtu.be/LeYDZvD7NmI
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,706
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    tommay said:

    ..and that float is real light...doesn't take much pressure to move it up and shut off.

    Pressure cannot move an object floating out in the open with no differential.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 5,704
    edited February 2022
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    You can blow with extreme force into a MoM vent and probably a Gorton and get it to close, but no residential steam system would manage it. And it would have to be like a C or D

    I did a lot of experimenting with MoM vents when I was trying to put a check valve on them. There was a lot of blowing involved. That’s how I know
    NJ Steam Homeowner. See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el
  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 5,739
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    tommay said:

    ...ever see a ping pong ball get pushed up and supported on a column of air?

    Yes, and the ping pong ball is almost completely filling that column dividing the low pressure from the high. That doesn't exist in a vent. The pressure can't move that float, it's literally impossible.
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,706
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    tommay said:

    ...ever see a ping pong ball get pushed up and supported on a column of air? Why have a float with an open bottom at all if all you need is the spring to push on a rod....

    The float is for water.

    Honestly this is basic steam stuff. If you don't understand how an air vent works...........

    We're trying to help you, but it seems like you're not interested.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 5,739
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    tommay said:

    ..so there is no differential in pressure from the inside of the radiator/vent and the room? How does the air come out then?

    Can you show me where I said that?
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,706
    edited February 2022
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    Bernoulli?

    Is this real life?
    I must still be asleep.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • ScottSecor
    ScottSecor Member Posts: 856
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    Not to add fuel to the fire, but did you know your can blow about 2.5psi on a gauge with your mouth/lungs? Just sharing some almost worthless information.
    ChrisJethicalpaulKC_Jones
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,706
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    tommay said:

    Chris J, Yes, Bernoulli....guess you don't know or understand him...he's real and part of life...wake up.

    I understand the Bernoulli principle.
    I don't understand you.


    @Jay85 I'm sorry.
    I personally run a mixture of Gorton 4's, 5s, 6s and even C's.
    I have 5 Gorton 1 main vents on one main, and 1 Gorton 1 on the other.

    Can you tell us when the system is noisy? Is it only during the start of a heating cycle? At the end? The entire time? This is actually very important.

    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    tommay
  • Jay85
    Jay85 Member Posts: 34
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    ChrisJ said:
    Chris J, Yes, Bernoulli....guess you don't know or understand him...he's real and part of life...wake up.
    I understand the Bernoulli principle. I don't understand you. @Jay85 I'm sorry. I personally run a mixture of Gorton 4's, 5s, 6s and even C's. I have 5 Gorton 1 main vents on one main, and 1 Gorton 1 on the other. Can you tell us when the system is noisy? Is it only during the start of a heating cycle? At the end? The entire time? This is actually very important.
    Everytime the boiler comes on to give heat. As for an exact time it takes I dk. I could find out possibly tonight. I could stand and listen. But I know the vents are not stuck open because I have listened to them click shut after air has finished coming out. A random rough guestimate would be 15 min after the boiler gets the call for heat you can hear the air start to purge from the radiators on the second floor. The sound starts of slow and quiet and eventually turns into a loud sounding rush of air. I also ordered a new psi guage that should be here today. Current one reads 0 most of the time. I have seen it move very rarely. 
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,706
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    Jay85 said:


    ChrisJ said:

    tommay said:

    Chris J, Yes, Bernoulli....guess you don't know or understand him...he's real and part of life...wake up.

    I understand the Bernoulli principle.
    I don't understand you.


    @Jay85 I'm sorry.
    I personally run a mixture of Gorton 4's, 5s, 6s and even C's.
    I have 5 Gorton 1 main vents on one main, and 1 Gorton 1 on the other.

    Can you tell us when the system is noisy? Is it only during the start of a heating cycle? At the end? The entire time? This is actually very important.


    Everytime the boiler comes on to give heat. As for an exact time it takes I dk. I could find out possibly tonight. I could stand and listen. But I know the vents are not stuck open because I have listened to them click shut after air has finished coming out. A random rough guestimate would be 15 min after the boiler gets the call for heat you can hear the air start to purge from the radiators on the second floor. The sound starts of slow and quiet and eventually turns into a loud sounding rush of air. I also ordered a new psi guage that should be here today. Current one reads 0 most of the time. I have seen it move very rarely. 

    If you have time, can you try to post some pictures of the boiler, the piping around it and a few radiators?

    It may sound strange, but more often than not a few pictures can help a lot.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Jay85
    Jay85 Member Posts: 34
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    ChrisJ said:
    ChrisJ said:
    Chris J, Yes, Bernoulli....guess you don't know or understand him...he's real and part of life...wake up.
    I understand the Bernoulli principle. I don't understand you. @Jay85 I'm sorry. I personally run a mixture of Gorton 4's, 5s, 6s and even C's. I have 5 Gorton 1 main vents on one main, and 1 Gorton 1 on the other. Can you tell us when the system is noisy? Is it only during the start of a heating cycle? At the end? The entire time? This is actually very important.
    Everytime the boiler comes on to give heat. As for an exact time it takes I dk. I could find out possibly tonight. I could stand and listen. But I know the vents are not stuck open because I have listened to them click shut after air has finished coming out. A random rough guestimate would be 15 min after the boiler gets the call for heat you can hear the air start to purge from the radiators on the second floor. The sound starts of slow and quiet and eventually turns into a loud sounding rush of air. I also ordered a new psi guage that should be here today. Current one reads 0 most of the time. I have seen it move very rarely. 
    If you have time, can you try to post some pictures of the boiler, the piping around it and a few radiators? It may sound strange, but more often than not a few pictures can help a lot.
    Hopefully tonight I can get over to the building. Ill take pics and post on here.
    ChrisJ
  • Jay85
    Jay85 Member Posts: 34
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  • Jay85
    Jay85 Member Posts: 34
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    Pressure got up to 12 ounces around the end of the cycle.
  • Jay85
    Jay85 Member Posts: 34
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    Any ideas guys? What could cause all 9 of the brand new gortons to function like they dont close. The apartments are hot and the air is humid. I can see some steam coming out of the vents. I just find it strange that 9 radiators would have this problem. Is it possible the main venting isnt enough? I already have 2 gorton #2 vents on 55 feet of 2inch pipe. 
  • Jay85
    Jay85 Member Posts: 34
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    ChrisJ said:
    Personally I find vents are annoying above 1/4 psi.

    2 psi would drive me nuts.
    Yes. These things are screaming at around 4 to 6 ounces. And its every floor. 
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,706
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    I think we all saw how that pressurtrol is wired and the blue PEX and shark bite decided "I'm out".

    If the vents aren't closing on steam they are bad for some reason.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Jay85
    Jay85 Member Posts: 34
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    ChrisJ said:
    I think we all saw how that pressurtrol is wired and the blue PEX and shark bite decided "I'm out".

    If the vents aren't closing on steam they are bad for some reason.
    Yea. That stuff crossed my mind but posted the pic anyways. I took over the building a few months ago and I am trying to ger the system up to par. The pex was not my doing. Old owner did bare minimum. He straight up told me "if the tenants have heat, thet have heat, if not, oh well". I dont run my business like that. 
  • Jay85
    Jay85 Member Posts: 34
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    Its difficult finding knowledgeable steam guys in my area. I had 2 guys come and wasnt pleased with them. 1 told me the boiler needs to run on high pressure and the other saw the main vent was stuck open and suggested I remove the vent and cap it. Lol. A search on here there is no contractors close to the property in orange county, ny. Id love to get a knowledgeable guy off this site to go over things with a fine tooth comb. 
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,706
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    The only reason I could imagine many new vents going bad assuming they were ok to start is if rust and debris got stuck in them from excessive pressure.   Or if the system was overfilled with water.

    Other than that I have no idea 
    You're sure they're releasing steam and the actual vent body feels very hot?  
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Jay85
    Jay85 Member Posts: 34
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    ChrisJ said:
    The only reason I could imagine many new vents going bad assuming they were ok to start is if rust and debris got stuck in them from excessive pressure.   Or if the system was overfilled with water.

    Other than that I have no idea 
    You're sure they're releasing steam and the actual vent body feels very hot?  
    Yes. Its a mixture of air and steam. But I am positive they are hot. Like scolding hot. Please explain about if the boiler was overfilled. What would that have done?
  • gerry gill
    gerry gill Member Posts: 3,078
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    I personally have lost all faith in Groton vents over the last year. I just recently ordered a thousand dollars of Groton vents and 4 of the first 6 that I installed would not close. I sent the whole order back to supply house.com who was very understanding and business like about the matter. I then purchased about an equal dollar amount of the Hoffman 40 and have had zero issues. Slower in operation but hey, at least they work. My theory is the Gortons may be getting fouled up in the plating process. But I now avoid them as I can no longer trust their quality control. Sorry Groton.
    gwgillplumbingandheating.com
    Serving Cleveland's eastern suburbs from Cleveland Heights down to Cuyahoga Falls.

  • Jay85
    Jay85 Member Posts: 34
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    I personally have lost all faith in Groton vents over the last year. I just recently ordered a thousand dollars of Groton vents and 4 of the first 6 that I installed would not close. I sent the whole order back to supply house.com who was very understanding and business like about the matter. I then purchased about an equal dollar amount of the Hoffman 40 and have had zero issues. Slower in operation but hey, at least they work. My theory is the Gortons may be getting fouled up in the plating process. But I now avoid them as I can no longer trust their quality control. Sorry Groton.
    Unless theres another issue, I have 9 that are not closing. Occasionally they would but not anymore. All prob 2 weeks old.