Hydronic Panel with Fan - Good Idea? Need Recommendations

Redrum

I currently have a 1800 sq ft Cape with a Buderus boiler with 5 zones - downstairs, upstairs, back porch, hot water, basement. Currently, the basement (about 900 sq ft) has a 16' length of dual baseboard elements. The basement is unfinished, and will remain that way (utilities, laundry, storage, workshop).

The basement baseboard has gotten destroyed over time due to moisture, which has been addressed. I would like to replace it with a panel radiator (or 2) to "take the chill off" and to get the heaters up off the floor. I seldom have the basement zone on (never in Spring->Fall), and the temp remains around 60F in the winter, but when it gets into single digits it drops into the 50's, and I turn it on.

I am not looking to obtain even temperatures like in a living space, but I spend allot of time in my workshop, and I'd like to get the temp up to 60-64 or so.

My question (finally). I have used a panel radiator, and I like them, but I am wondering if I shouldn't look into something with a built in fan? My thinking is I can use it more "on demand", have it help heat areas away from the unit, and located it higher off the floor (i think they direct down).

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Jim

psb75

Panel rad with fan is a fine idea. Has higher BTUH output. You are adding a significant convective heat component to a radiant unit. So, this unit can "do more duty" and you use less total surface area of panel radiators. Less plumbing. A bit more operational costs (electricity) and of course the wiring must be included. They "stand off" the wall a bit more--being thicker. A slight bit of additional noise.

Ironman

I’ve never seen a panel radiator with a fan, but a convector like this may be what you want:

https://htproducts.com/literature/UltraThin-Hydronic-FanCoil.pdf

Redrum

psb75 said:

Panel rad with fan is a fine idea.

Thank you, can you direct me to some manufacturers? I also wonder - my basement is on a thermostat controlled zone valve, so ideally this would remain in place, thermostat call for heat, zone valve turns on, and the unit (fan) would turn on when hot water reaches it?

Also, do the fans have speed settings/variable?

I just know zero about them

Jim

Redrum

Ironman said:

I’ve never seen a panel radiator with a fan, but a convector like this may be what you want:

https://htproducts.com/literature/UltraThin-Hydronic-FanCoil.pdf

Hi Bob;
I was thinking something like this https://www.grainger.com/product/DAYTON-Suspended-Horizontal-Hydronic-5YH18?opr=APPD&analytics=altItems_5PV19

The only concern would be noise, if I was to keep it "on" as it's living space above.

I was attracted to the fact that it can mount higher (i.e. work benches, saws, etc along walls), and that it can spread the heat with a fan that seems to direct airflow down

Jim

psb75

Keep in mind that ALL of this technology will be EUROPEAN or ASIAN. We are talking about 'the rest of the world' that recognizes that hydronic heat is most efficient and comfortable. Not USA mfgs. Here is one from Toyotomi: https://toyotomiusa.com/product/hc-190-toyotomi-heat-convector/ It's possible that Buderus/Bosch makes one as well. Not a lot of choices because...this is the USA. Actually I think Runtal radiators are made in the USA. But I don't think they have any fan units. Here's another one from My$on: https://www.houseneeds.com/heating/fan-convectors-coils-air-handlers/myson-ivector-hydronic-cooling-heating-fan-convector-iv60fx160

hot_rod

The Runtal Neo and Jaga EHD are two options available for panel rad fan boost 

Redrum

great, thanks. I am having a hard time finding the runtal available (discontinued??), but I have found the Toyotomi, and on first glance, it looks perfect. I'll dig in a bit more.

Yes on the metric panels, I have one in my back porch that I installed maybe 6 years ago. Love it, and love hydronic heating, have had it all my life, even childhood!

As a side note, I still have the 16' of double baseboard connected, and because we were sub zero this morning (western new york), I went down to my basement to work and it was 57. I turned up that stat and it got to 60 fairly quickly. My point being my initial though of equivalent BTU panel radiators would probably work as well.

Jim

TAG

Is the basement leaky ? How much underground? Being an old house guy I have had more than a few old basements. Depending on how much is open to the elements .. the actual heat load is often not a huge. I find keeping the basement warmer makes the whole house more comfortable -- where is the boiler? You can always really oversize the a couple panels -- I have two larger 22's in my shop (they are thicker). When I turn up the Danfoss head they really throw out some heat

pecmsg

What type of workshop?

Redrum

workshop - everything - woodworking, mechanic, electronics, I like to stay busy in the winter

The basement did have water problems and associated humidity for years. I recently had the drain tile replaced and a couple of wall cracks repaired. I would say 6' of it is below grade. The boiler is also in the basement on the west wall. Yea, I had originally thought a couple panels, and still might. But, my thought on the fan assist is "quicker to temp". I realize that having the basement heater helps the above floor, but all of my 1" copper baseboard heating for 2 floors runs under the first floor joists. I purposely did not wrap these pipes thinking that helps heat the floor above. The floors are comfortable with bare feet.

It looks like I can get the toyotomi panel with wall bracket for about $600 which I am comfortable with for a basement. I'll research it a bit more

Thanks, Jim

Ironman

Redrum said:

I’ve never seen a panel radiator with a fan, but a convector like this may be what you want:

https://htproducts.com/literature/UltraThin-Hydronic-FanCoil.pdf

Hi Bob; I was thinking something like this https://www.grainger.com/product/DAYTON-Suspended-Horizontal-Hydronic-5YH18?opr=APPD&analytics=altItems_5PV19 The only concern would be noise, if I was to keep it "on" as it's living space above. I was attracted to the fact that it can mount higher (i.e. work benches, saws, etc along walls), and that it can spread the heat with a fan that seems to direct airflow down Jim

No, you don’t want that in your house. They’re very noisy and can have a lot of vibration.

pecmsg

Redrum said:

workshop - everything - woodworking, mechanic, electronics, I like to stay busy in the winter The basement did have water problems and associated humidity for years. I recently had the drain tile replaced and a couple of wall cracks repaired. I would say 6' of it is below grade. The boiler is also in the basement on the west wall. Yea, I had originally thought a couple panels, and still might. But, my thought on the fan assist is "quicker to temp". I realize that having the basement heater helps the above floor, but all of my 1" copper baseboard heating for 2 floors runs under the first floor joists. I purposely did not wrap these pipes thinking that helps heat the floor above. The floors are comfortable with bare feet. It looks like I can get the toyotomi panel with wall bracket for about $600 which I am comfortable with for a basement. I'll research it a bit more Thanks, Jim

Be careful with woodworking and chemicals on a fan coil. 

mattmia2

Another option is just to use an oversized panel radiator or 2 so it will heat fast when you turn that zone on just when you are down there. It doesn't have to be fan forced and I suspect what you need won't be much bigger than a console heater, especially if you go with one of the double or triple depth panel radiators.

kcopp

I would find an older cast iron radiator and pipe it up.
Cant destroy them
They throw great heat.

mattmia2

While i agree with the CI radiator in principle, i'm not the one that has to get it down the stairs.

hot_rod

I have a kick space heater in a wall cabinet near my bench for quick warm up on my feet. Mine is a two speed fan, one noisy, one less noisy setting.

I had a Jaga unit with those "muffin" fan stacks, whisper quiet.

Redrum

Thank you for your comments. The cast one is one I hadn't thought of, but yea, getting it down the stairs...I remember getting the new boiler down the stairs and the old one up was not fun, and I was 10 years younger. I think there were 3 of us and I remember thinking that someone might die.

I think panels would work as well. My existing baseboard pipe/fins (temporary - sheet metal removed because it was detroyed from moisture) is only on the north wall and it brought the temp up from 57 to 60 quite quickly yesterday. I normally don't have that zone on, but I don't mind keeping it on until our temps moderate (say 20s-30s). The best place to put panel(s) would also be on the north wall. The supply/return piping to the boiler is already there. I suppose I could put another on or near the south wall, but that is allot of copper, and a long run.

So, my thought is that perhaps a fan could help even the heat distribution. But I am sure that panels would be fine as well.

I really don't want anything near the floor, Ideally I would be about 2-3' up. I know it's not ideal heat wise. In my back porch the panel is mounted about 2' off the floor because the floor is slightly above grade and the piping comes through the wall above the house foundation, right angle shutoffs into the bottom of the panel. Not ideal but seems to heat well.

Jim

Redrum

hot_rod said:

The Runtal Neo and Jaga EHD are two options available for panel rad fan boost 

I could not find the Jaga EHD. Here's the site I found: https://www.jaga-canada.com/products/

hot_rod

https://www.jaga.com/en/technology/heating/low-h2o.html

Here is the fan unit I was thinking about

Eden Energy in Guelph us a Jaga dealer

Shane_2

I've had good luck with these units, two speed fan, replaceable blower.

For your use, need cover and heater. Cover: https://www.supplyhouse.com/Beacon-Morris-F84-F84-Surface-Mount-Cabinet-Kit-9767000-p

Unit: https://www.supplyhouse.com/Beacon-Morris-K84-K84-Twin-Flo-III-Kick-Space-Heater

This link is for the medium size, also available in K-42 and K-120

psb75

The Runtal Neo fan assisted panel rad seems to be "Discontinued." Not enough interest in the USA?
Thanks for the Jaga link. I have not heard of them before.
Trust the Canadians to be "ahead of the curve" in North America.

Redrum

psb75 said:

Trust the Canadians to be "ahead of the curve" in North America.

I have a seasonal cabin in Northern New York and found these electric convection heaters for as needed heat for the bedrooms https://www.convectair.glendimplexamericas.com/en-us/convection-heating/allegro-ii-14

I think they were initially from Quebec, but it now says Ontario. pricier than electric baseboard, but nice, self contained, and compact, and they provide even heat. I guess electric heat is more common on the other side of the lakes.

I was lucky to find a couple "open box" units.