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Gorton #1

Levie
Levie Member Posts: 79
Okay so this is not the first time this has happened to me and I'm wondering if I'm missing something.
I installed new Gorton #1 vents on a steam main and for some reason they spit steam for the first 5 minutes after the steam reaches them until pressure starts building up.

Are these vents meant to shut the second steam reaches them or is it normal for them to leak for a few minutes until the system builds up pressure? 

Comments

  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 5,736
    They should close fully in the presence of steam.  Most Gortons start closing prior to steam hot, but should definitely be fully closed when the steam is there.
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 23,270
    Gortons -- any size -- close on temperature and liquid water (they have floats in them); pressure is not relevant. Only thing I can think of is if they aren't vertical?
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,658
    If I had to guess I'd say it's not steam coming out but wet air that's not hot enough to close the vent
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    ethicalpaulHap_Hazzard
  • Levie
    Levie Member Posts: 79
    They are vertical and it seems to be blowing steam for a good few minutes until they shut
    Could be it's just wet air and not actual steam that's hot enough to shut it?
    Is that something you guys have seen before? To the regular person it definitely seems like steam. And the steam that's coming out is definitely hot but possibly not hot enough?

    Thx
    Levi
  • dopey27177
    dopey27177 Member Posts: 887
    Possible>
    You have un-insulated steam main piping. That will cause hot vapors not steam at the start of a heating cycle.

    Boiler not piped properly will cause water to be hurled up into the steam main.

    Jake
  • Levie
    Levie Member Posts: 79
    I definitely don't have 24 in coming up from the boiler so that's a possibility.
    But please explain if water is mixed into the steam that won't be stopped by those valves is that correct?
    And if water is mixed into the air like vapor that also will not be stopped by the valves?
    Thx
  • neilc
    neilc Member Posts: 2,700
    post pictures of the near boiler piping,

    and what pressure are you runing at ?
    known to beat dead horses
  • Levie
    Levie Member Posts: 79
    I'll have to get back there to get a picture for you I am running out of pressure troll and I have it on the lowest setting .5 and 1 diff
    But the issue I'm seeing is before any pressure builds up and when pressure start building up that's when I see the steam stop coming out of those valves.
    Before I have pressure for good 5-10 minutes it sprays steam that is visible.
    This is not the first time I encountered this and was running if I am missing something.
    I saw someone posted about it not being real steam (maybe vapor mixing with the air) and maybe not hot enough to shut the valve was wondering if anyone else experienced this too.
    I'm tempted to try a Hoffman instead and see if I get different results.
    Thx
  • Hap_Hazzard
    Hap_Hazzard Member Posts: 2,846
    An IR thermometer can take the guesswork out of whether the vents are getting hot or not. They're handy for checking radiators too.
    Just another DIYer | King of Prussia, PA
    1983(?) Peerless G-561-W-S | 3" drop header, CG400-1090, VXT-24
  • Levie
    Levie Member Posts: 79
    An IR thermometer can take the guesswork out of whether the vents are getting hot or not. They're handy for checking radiators too.
    They definitely get hot I can feel that and the steam coming out as hot too.  I just don't know if they're not hot enough or what else can cause them to spit steam until the system builds the pressure.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,658

    An IR thermometer can take the guesswork out of whether the vents are getting hot or not. They're handy for checking radiators too.

    I find hands work good for that too.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    ethicalpaul
  • Hap_Hazzard
    Hap_Hazzard Member Posts: 2,846
    ChrisJ said:


    I find hands work good for that too.

    I'm not into pain.
    Just another DIYer | King of Prussia, PA
    1983(?) Peerless G-561-W-S | 3" drop header, CG400-1090, VXT-24
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,658
    edited December 2021

    ChrisJ said:


    I find hands work good for that too.

    I'm not into pain.
    There are ways to feel heat from a radiator or steam piping that involves no pain.
    Brains yes, pain no.


    It's a low pressure steam pipe, not a downpipe on a turbocharger.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Hap_Hazzard
    Hap_Hazzard Member Posts: 2,846
    ChrisJ said:

    It's a low pressure steam pipe, not a downpipe on a turbocharger.

    I thought we were talking about vents. I don't see how you can tell if a vent is steam hot, as opposed to just warm, without burning your hand, but I guess I don't have your superior brain. I also use a roasting thermometer to tell if my roast is done instead of feeling it. I must be really dumb.
    Just another DIYer | King of Prussia, PA
    1983(?) Peerless G-561-W-S | 3" drop header, CG400-1090, VXT-24
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 5,701
    A light tap on a pipe or vent and you can tell if it's "steam hot" vs just "warm" or "kinda hot" without getting burned. Use finger pads, not tender parts.
    NJ Steam Homeowner. See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el
    ChrisJHap_Hazzard
  • dabrakeman
    dabrakeman Member Posts: 551
    You said vents (plural) on steam main (singular). So, do you have one steam main and multiple vents on that main? Are they on a candelabra or antler? Any chance the antler could be slightly pitched the wrong way trapping some water in the antler? Are the vents raised relative to the main sufficiently and sufficiently back from the drop down to the main return (maybe at least 6 inches up and away)? Did they allow steam to release immediately after installation or is it something noticed weeks or months later? They should close on steam unless perhaps exposure to water over time has caused them to fail open.

    Sorry, lot of questions. Pictures would be great.
  • Levie
    Levie Member Posts: 79
    This is a single Gordon number one on the longer side supply. It is all the way at the end of the line actually it's a tee right under the drop but I elbowed up and went higher than the steam line. (Don't shoot me I found it this way I just extended it higher then the line)
    It is brand new and had this issue from the beginning. If it is at the end of the line and it's exposed I guess to condensate will that cause it not to close properly? Is that a common thing that you have a steam vent at the end of a line and at leaks steam even when it's brand new?
    Thx

  • dabrakeman
    dabrakeman Member Posts: 551
    @Levie Good video reviewing construction of some valves and how they work. The Gorton #1 should share same basic operation as the #2 shown at the end.
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=0ugIrg9bquk
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ugIrg9bquk

  • Hap_Hazzard
    Hap_Hazzard Member Posts: 2,846
    edited December 2021

    A light tap on a pipe or vent and you can tell if it's "steam hot" vs just "warm" or "kinda hot" without getting burned. Use finger pads, not tender parts.

    Spoken like a guy with no calluses.

    I can't believe you guys are actually arguing against using a thermometer. Please don't apply this same "reasoning" to multimeters and other test equipment.
    Just another DIYer | King of Prussia, PA
    1983(?) Peerless G-561-W-S | 3" drop header, CG400-1090, VXT-24
  • Levie
    Levie Member Posts: 79
    @Levie Good video reviewing construction of some valves and how they work. The Gorton #1 should share same basic operation as the #2 shown at the end. https://youtube.com/watch?v=0ugIrg9bquk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ugIrg9bquk
    Very informative tnx