can you use copper for a steam radiator return?

bbillcee

PC7060 said:

Good point.  I see the larger (1-1/4”?) line come down and into the lower radiator inlet and come out the upper port on opposite side and down into what looks like a tee to a smaller 3/4” line that returns to boiler on one side and wraps around corner other side. 

Is that a second smaller condensate return?

hey guys ...yes that is a separate return from an elevated rad in the basement, where it comes out of the bottom of the rad it goes into a tee that has a vent on top. i actually have a pic before i made a cover for it. I was gonna change the rad vent but it works great and its look like its been the for 70 years and would be a **** to get out, im not looking for problems

bbillcee

this is completely unrelated but maybe someone might find this interesting....i have been working in residences for 30 years i have never seen this......this is in my vestibule closet.... jacket radiator?? it doesnt spit or leak anymore after i changed the valve...works great

PC7060

Thanks for the picture. Did you find the cabinet rescued the heat output significantly?

bbillcee

PC7060 said:

Thanks for the picture. Did you find the cabinet rescued the heat output significantly?

''

the cover i made for the rad??

PC7060

bbillcee said:

Thanks for the picture. Did you find the cabinet rescued the heat output significantly?

'' the cover i made for the rad??

Yep!

bbillcee

PC7060 said:

bbillcee said:

PC7060 said:

Thanks for the picture. Did you find the cabinet rescued the heat output significantly?

''

the cover i made for the rad??

Yep!

well before i boxed it in i put sheet metal behind the radiator then put anther piece 1/2 way down and bent it over the top of the radiator. my thinking was it would kinda relay the heat forward 🤷🏻‍♂️. After i boxed it in i dont notice any change down there at all...btw i mad the cover easily removable should i eve have to mess with vents

BobC

@Hap_Hazzard That was a case of typing while brain not engaged - I meant PEX not PVC. The problem might be you don't have the tooling for 1" PEX. Also Viega only rates it at 180F, that 180 rating might not be an issue if it's buried.

Bob

JUGHNE

Your second radiator is also a curious installation.
The pipe coming to it is sloped down for parallel flow and looks to be the end of a steam main.
So all the condensate and steam would go thru this radiator. Only in this case the condensate would dribble in the top and down the first section, flow along the bottom of the radiator and into the wet return.
Steam would enter the rad as normal and condense as normal.

The 2 air vents must constitute the steam main pipe air venting.

How hot does that rad get? And do you hear the vent whistle?

Do you have 2 steam mains that run around the basement?

Back to the first radiator sitting on the basement floor, where does the large pipe come from?
Is it the end of another steam main? And are there air vents between the rad and end of steam main....if that is the case.

You might as well show us your boiler and its piping...someone will ask.

bbillcee

JUGHNE said:

Your second radiator is also a curious installation. The pipe coming to it is sloped down for parallel flow and looks to be the end of a steam main. So all the condensate and steam would go thru this radiator. Only in this case the condensate would dribble in the top and down the first section, flow along the bottom of the radiator and into the wet return. Steam would enter the rad as normal and condense as normal. The 2 air vents must constitute the steam main pipe air venting. How hot does that rad get? And do you hear the vent whistle? Do you have 2 steam mains that run around the basement? Back to the first radiator sitting on the basement floor, where does the large pipe come from? Is it the end of another steam main? And are there air vents between the rad and end of steam main....if that is the case. You might as well show us your boiler and its piping...someone will ask.

There are 2 mains steam lines in the house, this is the rear main. That elevated rad is at the end of the horizontal run … I’m not sure if it was originally sloped down like that but when they demo’s my basement the elevated rad got knocked of its hanger and was resting on the return so it may have bent…. I jacked it up to where the rad seemed to have the proper pitch and where the return had some pitch toward the boiler and secured it… again I’m not a plumber I just went by common sense..I didn’t see any issue as there is only one rad i between that and the main big return … I’m gonna get u good pics later this should hopefully my sense.. that big pipe your referring to is the main return I think… I’ll show u later

bbillcee

Yes that radiator gets very hot and when the heat is cranking on a real cold day I sometimes hear it hissing

JUGHNE

That lower air vent would be considered the end of main air vent.
I may improve the heating if it was a larger air vent....raised up with an extension pipe as high as possible.

bbillcee

JUGHNE said:

Your second radiator is also a curious installation. The pipe coming to it is sloped down for parallel flow and looks to be the end of a steam main. So all the condensate and steam would go thru this radiator. Only in this case the condensate would dribble in the top and down the first section, flow along the bottom of the radiator and into the wet return. Steam would enter the rad as normal and condense as normal. The 2 air vents must constitute the steam main pipe air venting. How hot does that rad get? And do you hear the vent whistle? Do you have 2 steam mains that run around the basement? Back to the first radiator sitting on the basement floor, where does the large pipe come from? Is it the end of another steam main? And are there air vents between the rad and end of steam main....if that is the case. You might as well show us your boiler and its piping...someone will ask.

JUGHNE

So it looks like both of the basement rads come off of the same steam main.
And that main has an air vent up high to the right of the door.
And all of the condensate passes thru the floor rad, except for the wall hung rad.

Was there a pipe into the floor to the left of the floor rad? May have been a wet return that is abandoned, the other end may have come up near the boiler.

Your boiler piping looks very good compared to what we usually see here.

What is that triangular shaped gauge to the left of the flue pipe and what is that above it?

PC7060

@JUGHNE - how important is insulation on the near boiler piping for steamers? I notice this boiler piping is bare but your jobs and other such as @Steamhead seem to spend some effort ensuring well insulated piping.  

JUGHNE

Very important to keep from killing the steam on it's way to the rads.
The 3 boilers I just installed this summer have virtually no insulation anywhere.
All the asbestos was abated last year. We have a 350 pipe tunnel that is very hot, the boiler room with all the added piping can approach 100 degrees.

When the boilers fire up in the morning they have to heat all the piping as if they were radiation. Heating is slow and not in the right place.

Insulation was not included in my proposal, but I can see becoming involved in doing it myself.
It would be a great winter job for custodial help but they have a hard time hiring a second person.
That is the story everywhere. Out unemployment rate for the state is like 1.9%.
Help wanted signs everywhere. At least $15 per hour for anything, just a breathing body that shows up.

bbillcee

JUGHNE said:

So it looks like both of the basement rads come off of the same steam main.
And that main has an air vent up high to the right of the door.
And all of the condensate passes thru the floor rad, except for the wall hung rad.

Was there a pipe into the floor to the left of the floor rad? May have been a wet return that is abandoned, the other end may have come up near the boiler.

Your boiler piping looks very good compared to what we usually see here.

What is that triangular shaped gauge to the left of the flue pipe and what is that above it?

yes that was the original return that was abandoned in 1980. that triangular shaped guage is a temperature gauge for when the hot water was running off a coil on the older boiler, my father actually had them but a coil in this weil McClain but i bypassed it after a year to 2 ...it sucked! we would used to use the coil in the winter then switch over to the hot water heater in the summer. should i insulate those mains coming off the boiler? i left it off so i would get some heat in that part of the basement...there are no radiators in there!

bbillcee

JUGHNE said:

Very important to keep from killing the steam on it's way to the rads.
The 3 boilers I just installed this summer have virtually no insulation anywhere.
All the asbestos was abated last year. We have a 350 pipe tunnel that is very hot, the boiler room with all the added piping can approach 100 degrees.

When the boilers fire up in the morning they have to heat all the piping as if they were radiation. Heating is slow and not in the right place.

Insulation was not included in my proposal, but I can see becoming involved in doing it myself.
It would be a great winter job for custodial help but they have a hard time hiring a second person.
That is the story everywhere. Out unemployment rate for the state is like 1.9%.
Help wanted signs everywhere. At least $15 per hour for anything, just a breathing body that shows up.

above the temperature gauge is a "water cushion" coil looking thing??

pecmsg

bbillcee said:

JUGHNE said:

Your second radiator is also a curious installation.
The pipe coming to it is sloped down for parallel flow and looks to be the end of a steam main.
So all the condensate and steam would go thru this radiator. Only in this case the condensate would dribble in the top and down the first section, flow along the bottom of the radiator and into the wet return.
Steam would enter the rad as normal and condense as normal.

The 2 air vents must constitute the steam main pipe air venting.

How hot does that rad get? And do you hear the vent whistle?

Do you have 2 steam mains that run around the basement?

Back to the first radiator sitting on the basement floor, where does the large pipe come from?
Is it the end of another steam main? And are there air vents between the rad and end of steam main....if that is the case.

You might as well show us your boiler and its piping...someone will ask.

that appears to be a large boiler for a single riser?

Pipe the pressure relief to the floor.

bbillcee

that appears to be a large boiler for a single riser?

Pipe the pressure relief to the floor.

will do, there is a tee out of the photo frame that splits the front and rear of the house, the boiler is still oversized i believe.

pecmsg

My point is there's a knockout on the top left, is there a plug under it where a second riser is required or not?