Cost effective way to rebuild a zone manifold without soldering?

AdamInEvergreen

Question at the top: Whats the most cost effective way to make rebuild a 5 zone header and zone valves?

I have a 5 zone system with 3/4 inch loops. The header was hand made by the an installer with a bunch of reducers and goes from 1 1/4 inch down to 3/4 inch. There are now some pinhole leaks.

So I'd like to rebuild the header. Problem is I am bad at, or at least inexperienced in soldering. The zone valve that is on there https://supplyhouse.com/Honeywell-Home-Resideo-V8043E1012-3-4-Sweat-Zone-Valve-Connection-18-Leads is $65 but floundering my way through soldering 10 connections isn't real appealing.

Is there another way that works well? I see some nice looking black steel headers out there with NPT, but obviously I've got corrosion issues and they are spaced wider (6-7") than I'd like which will create a lot of work integrating it. There are a lot of copper options with narrower spacing, but all I can find are 1/2" loop size. It seems like there are 1/2" zone valves with 3.5 cv so perhaps the narrower diameter is not a problem?

3 of my 5 powerheads are reusable I think. All 5 work, just the other two are old. So maybe just valve bodies?

One option is to buy the parts and take it to somebody more qualified to solder, including a ~6" stub of copper for me to attach press couplings on to. I'm planning to buy a manual press tool for other stuff on this project.

Another option is to put zone pumps on there, rather than valves. I'm currently planning on putting in a $200 delta p (Alpha2) pump on there...perhaps if I skipped that and did individual zone pumps that would end up costing the same amount.

Regarding the corrosion...contractor installed non-oxygen barrier pex for one loop during a remodel 2 years ago. The original 1977 construction folks who did soldered all the hydronic loops were pretty sloppy. Also I didn't screw an air purge down all the way (apparently you need to use a tool as hand tight was insufficient) which leaked for a while and may have introduced oxygen via make up water. Current course of action is to do some Sentinel X100 corrosion inhibitor annually then maybe tear up some drywall to replace the pex.

GroundUp

Why not just fix the leak instead of building a whole new header?

If you insist on building a new one, it's as simple as black threaded tees and nipples of your chosen length to make whatever spacing you desire. Maybe even hit the same spacing as you have now, and add isolation valves for each zone then tie into the existing copper lines for a total of 5 solder joints

Zman

You could rent a press tool. https://info.viega.us/blog/where-to-rent-a-press-tool

AdamInEvergreen

Planning to buy a manual one as I mentioned. Press zone valves are pretty expensive. 

HVACNUT

Does this absolutely need to be DIY? How is the rest of the system piped?
A good boiler contractor could repipe the whole system and clean up all the control wiring with a zone valve control relay. 
When you think about it, it is the most cost effective. Maybe more mentally than monetarily, but that's just as well.
We just did a similar job. I was there for a service call and made some recommendations. Cast iron wet base boiler with a gas conversion burner, 4 zones plus an 80 gal indirect, all on zone valves fed by a Taco 0014. The whole near boiler piping was so wrong it was almost funny. We wound up piping with all circulators, but zone valves can be fine.
And the homeowner is completely happy knowing the relief valve isn't going to blow every time a zone valve closes.

HomerJSmith

Whats your water quality? What kind of pump is moving water thru those zone valves?
Is it pin leaks in the pipe or bad solder joints?

AdamInEvergreen

@HVACNUT I have another post detailing a bunch of other issues. Does it have to be DIY? Well, I suppose not. I have had a ton of trouble getting qualified people to work on it. I've been looking in to doing mini splits in my house and it is good to be stupid expensive to get that done as a primary heating system. The mini split guy who came today said his dad (who owned the company) was a boiler expert and I scheduled him to come up for a boiler check....ill see if he comes with real recommendations to fix structural problems, or just follow the well worn path of tapping on the expansion tank and offering to replace what's leaking. 

Unfortunately my research that started with how to get less water hammer in the system has escalated to repiping the boiler room. Yay. "When you think about it, it is the most cost effective. Maybe more mentally than monetarily, but that's just as well."  this project is certainly living rent free in my head. 

@HomerJSmith well water is a somewhat hard and acidic. I don't think it's bad enough to cause damage and all of the leaking I've seen is around soldered joints. I posted a couple weeks ago about my system and you commented the pumps were too large (amon other issues). I'm running them on low right now. Since I realized how bad the header was I got a bit stuck on putting in a smarter pump. 
https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/184592/propane-boiler-high-temp-baseboards-install-issues-where-to-start

Also I was hoping a mini split based heating system would save me but I think that is not really an option.

mattmia2

Black iron fittings and nipples. i like taco zone sentry valves and they are available as npt. those honeywell valves are decent but the Taco zone sentry have a lot of features that make them better like you just press a clip and the whole actuator pops off and they use phoenix connectors for the wiring so you can terminate it right to the valve instead of having to splice it. The status light is nice too.

You can use compression/flare/press to connect to the existing piping.

Soldering isn't hard, just thoroughly clean both surfaces even if it is shiny new pipe, flux both surfaces, heat the heaviest part of the joint, touch the solder to the side of the joint furthest from the heat until it is hot enough to melt it, but don't hold it in the torch between tests. Make sure there is no water dripping in to the joint from anywhere while soldering.

AdamInEvergreen

Given I'm getting close to rebuilding my boiler room does something like this make sense? 

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Caleffi-1725E1A-Fixed-Point-Manifold-Mixing-Station-w-UPS-15-58-Pump-5-Outlets

Not that particular product but the concept of a pre made manifold. I have baseboard radiators and I think these things are mostly geared around in floor or whatever. 

HomerJSmith

Adam, It may just be bad soldering. I have pulled many a solder joints apart to find an incomplete solder fill that eventually leaked.

Water Quality in a boiler sys has taken on greater importance with the mod/con boilers, but water quality is important in any boiler sys. I cringe when someone tells me that their boiler water supply is well water.

An understanding of this can be found by reading online Caleffi's Idronic series on water quality, volumes 18, I think there is another volume that deals with water quality, too. hot_rod would know.

Volume 4 deals with manifold distribution sys.

You want to become an expert on boilers read all of the Idronic series volumes. My stack of Idronics magazines is over 5" high, that's a lot of reading.

mattmia2

You might spend as much time rerouting your pipes to meet a pre built manifold as it would take to just put your own together.

That valve with the leaking joint looks like it was replaced. The probably burned the flux out before they got the whole joint wetted while trying to slip it over the old solder on the pipe.

hot_rod

there is always the Shark Bite fitting

PC7060

hot_rod said:

there is always the Shark Bite fitting

     

Ironman

Take a look at a steel header like this:

https://www.boilersondemand.com/company-announcements/handy-header-building-block-hydronic-distribution-efficiency/