Installation concerns

Snotraveler

I have a Buderus G115WS-4 that is in the final stages of installation. The system needs additional glycol added and the final inspection to be performed. The system has 4 zones, one feeding a SSU-45 indirect fired water tank, a zone feeding a hydro air unit, one feeding a first floor split zone and another my second floor.

As you can see the circulators have been installed on the return side, which I already know is not a good practice. For the record, this is how my original 44 year old boiler was piped. Besides making it more difficult to bleed the air off, are there any other concerns? Are there any other concerns with the piping, placement of the expansion tank etc.

I appreciate any and all opinions. I can attach more photos if needed. Thanks to all who read this post and respond.

Steamhead

Good eye. The circs should be on the supply lines, pumping away from the expansion tank. This goes a long way toward preventing air from accumulating in the system.

I would have put the tank in the bottom tapping of the air separator.

EBEBRATT-Ed

Pumping away from the expansion tank is better. It really depends on the resistance of the piping system if it will give you problems or not. Looks like your stuck with what you have. That's an expensive repipe

STEVEusaPA

Why glycol?

Snotraveler

Thanks to all that replied. As far as the glycol, my hydro-air unit is located in my attic and I live in MA.

PC7060

Nice work overall but annoying they are pumping into return (but not uncommon).  

I’ve learned to ask for a system layout drawing or sketch before signing contract.  Best to get those discussions out of the way early. 

pecmsg

Look in the install manual, they show Pumping Away!

HVACNUT

Sometimes I wish I never clicked on a thread. Why? I don't understand why it was done the way it was done. Is the installer trying to prove a point of some kind? And it probably would've been cheaper doing it the correct way using IFC circs instead of flo checks. Things like this make no sense to me. 

pecmsg

HVACNUT said:

Sometimes I wish I never clicked on a thread. Why? I don't understand why it was done the way it was done. Is the installer trying to prove a point of some kind? And it probably would've been cheaper doing it the correct way using IFC circs instead of flo checks. Things like this make no sense to me. 

Because he's been doing it wrong for 30 + Years!

PC7060

pecmsg said:

Look in the install manual, they show Pumping Away!

Install manual!!! That’s crazy talk! 😜 

EBEBRATT-Ed

@HVACNUT

Agree. Many are convinced the return side is the place for the circ. Wouldn't have cost any more to do it right.

Many old jobs work fine with pumps on the return it's all about the system pressure drop.

But why in the world on a new install they wouldn't pump away is beyond me?

It's because they don't know any better, and if they don't know "pumping away" what else don't they know

Snotraveler

I agree with you, why would you do it this way? It's the same amount of work doing it the correct way. My installer is very combative, he wanted to install an air scoop with a Hy Vent where the Spirovent is. I questioned not having a straight run before the air scoop and got him to change it, but he's very defensive and told me I read to much. I asked why he piped it the way he did and he said he didn't have room, which is a bunch of bull...t. He's an older guy and I assumed he would have more knowledge than he seems to have. I guess you can't assume anything. I'm 63 and still learning the hard way on selecting a good contractor.

HVACNUT

Well it's a nice system and it's not like it won't work. 
On another note, unless I can't see it, there's no draft regulator. It looks the the flue is piped to a pre fab chimney. 
Buderus wants draft set to 0 to slightly positive over the fire and -.02 at the breach.
You now need a good oil tech who can properly set up the burner and draft. Riello has OEM specs for your boiler and that looks like a package burner, but it still needs to be set up after the regulator gets cut in.
This tech should have a digital combustion analyzer, a smoke gun, a draft gauge (usually within the analyzer), and Riello pressure and vacuum gauges.

JakeCK

Snotraveler said:

but he's very defensive and told me I read to much.

O.o

psb75

Time to cut the original installer loose. Put your new-found and recently gained knowledge of "selecting a good contractor" into high gear. I understand that it is not easy in "these times." However, you have gained some important information on this forum. 1.) read and follow the OEM manual.

GW

Y’all are great but can be alarmists at times😀. Circs on the return have worked since the beginning of time. Sure all of us would put them on the supply but the house will heat just fine. I’ve never, ever been to a house where the old man or lady said “the main reason I want you here calling me a new boiler because the pipes are noisy”. 

Flow checks- that’s professional work. Internal for checks are cheap,

GW

Sno if you knew all of this before and didn’t discuss this with the installer before you hired him- that’s kinda lame. No one can read minds. Once in a while I get an “extra knowledgeable” home owner- and we just hash it out before the work starts. 

I would get a little funky too if I’m installing a system of the home owner starts chirping about this and that.

psb75

"Chirping" about following the I & O manual from the mfg.?

Pughie1

Guys, can't tell from the photo, does that aquastat have a low water cut off function built into it?

GW

Yes “chirping”. The HO had all this knowledge and didn’t exercise basic research skills. You know that pumps should go in the supply but hired someone that you “can’t see their installation pictures in the internet “? Why? 

Zipper13

GW said:

Yes “chirping”. The HO had all this knowledge and didn’t exercise basic research skills. You know that pumps should go in the supply but hired someone that you “can’t see their installation pictures in the internet “? Why? 

@GW the homeowner (AKA "customer") hired a professional to do a job and has what seems to be a pretty reasonable questions about the design. I've had work done and kept my nose out of things only to find in the end that corners were cut OR they were unaware of some minor but unique detail about my home that would have been helpful for me to share at the beginning of work.

This "chirping" to me sounds more like a customer who wants reassurance that their money was well spent, and any professional should be able to do that with their expertise and experience and provide the explanation for their design - even if it's annoying!

I think a lot of pros forget that dropping serious cash on a job like this for our homes isn't a choice that we make lightly. Jobs like this affect our budgets for the whole year, if not longer! That's why we read about this stuff. And yeah sometimes we just don't know what we don't know and we ask stupid questions, but shouldn't that be reasonably tolerated if not expected?

You pointed out that the work pictured looks like a professional job and probably isn't as big a deal as some comments make it sound. But it just hits weird that you dismiss a client's concerns of not following recommended installation as "chirping" . I don't mean to be rude, but that's not an attitude I'd put up with too long from a contractor.

GW

Zip, it’s all cool, I’m just asking why this didn’t come up earlier. After doing this since the late 80s, and dealing with thousands of homeowners, something just doesn’t seem normal. That’s all. Peace