Boiler installation

GigiRod

Hey all,

I recently had a new oil boiler installed. I find the near boiler piping questionable (based on manuf. diagram and my experience on this site). I wanted to get some feedback before I approach the installer and ask them to correct it.

Here are the issues I see, but I don't know if they will be a real problem. Can they stay or do they need to be fixed? What will be the consequences of these issues.

1. The supply riser goes straight up into the main in the back.
2. The header reduces on the horizontal rather than the equalizer reducing vertically.
3. The equalizer goes horizontal for a bit instead of straight into the Hartford loop.

I'd appreciate any feedback. And of course, if there is something I missed.

Thanks!

kcopp

Ugh... That's a re-pipe. Too many issues to fix. Just pull it apart and start again.

JUGHNE

The boiler riser is only 2"....book says 3"....look down into the top of the jacket, is there a reducing bushing there?
Steam main supply to be vertical takeoff or 45 degree....you have 2 mains.
Both should be after the first 90 above the steam boiler riser.

Reducing tee in the horizontal header will trap water.....it is too small any way.

The equalizer might be OK with 1 1/2" depending upon how many sections the boiler is.

Should be no horizontal pipe in equalizer....only 45 ells.

The pipe going into the equalizer tee is too long. Should be close or short nipple.
The union should be on the vertical riser.

But on a positive note, the "header" is at least 24" above the water line.

Are the first one to open the install book?

As kcopp said, total re-pipe.

At least it is not copper.

STEVEusaPA

Oil line is wrong, compression fittings, no firomatic.

EBEBRATT-Ed

Another installer who can't or refuses to read.

It's simple, just follow the manufacturers drawing.

They use 2" pipe because that's the largest they can thread.

One main looks to be counderflow and needs to be dripped, the drip from that should not go back in the header. That detail is not on the drawing


Make sure he gets the height of the Hartford Loop right it's also on the drawing yours looks low but it could be the camera angle


And when he say's " I know what I'm doing I have been doing this for 40 years" don't pay him

Steamhead

EBEBRATT-Ed said:

Another installer who can't or refuses to read.

And when he say's " I know what I'm doing I have been doing this for 40 years" don't pay him

This. He should not be in the business.

GigiRod

@JUGHNE I put a picture of the view inside the jacket

GigiRod

@EBEBRATT-Ed Unfortunately I already paid up. I didn't realize the issues til well after the install. I'm hoping that the company contact will honor their proposal and service agreement and fix the piping. And hopefully send me different installer.

GigiRod

The big question, in case it takes me a while to resolve this, is this safe to operate as is in the meantime?

EBEBRATT-Ed

@GigiRod

Likely safe but they should have done a combustion test. The install looks ok in that they did a fairly neat job, they just didn't follow the mfg instructions and with today's steam boilers that usually causes operational problems

GigiRod

The union should be on the vertical riser.

Can you clarify which union fitting. There is the one in the Hartford loop and above it. There is one before the tee for the second main. There is the one on the first main.

JUGHNE

The union being in the short horizontal pipe going into the tee of the Hartford Loop makes that pipe too long. As the book states it should be a short or shoulder nipple.

That connection needs to be 1-2" below the level of the water line.

The union could go below the tee that has the copper water fill pipe connected.
It could replace that coupling below the Tee in the vertical line.

SlamDunk

I'm guessing they might not have skimmed the oil from it either... Least of the issues but will result in surging.

GigiRod

SlamDunk said:

I'm guessing they might not have skimmed the oil from it either... Least of the issues but will result in surging.

I had asked about skimming and tech gave me some answer about burning myself and just using a chemical cleaner instead. So there is no tapping for skimming.

KC_Jones

GigiRod said:

SlamDunk said:

I'm guessing they might not have skimmed the oil from it either... Least of the issues but will result in surging.

I had asked about skimming and tech gave me some answer about burning myself and just using a chemical cleaner instead. So there is no tapping for skimming.

That's a line they gave you so they don't need to do it. No cleaner can remove oil, you have to remove the oil. Given the crap piping job they did, I wouldn't trust or believe much of anything they told you.

After they re-pipe it, it needs skimmed, by either them or you, but they certainly need to install the skim tapping. You have already looked at the manual and identified the incorrect piping, you are that much further along than them.

And just to be clear in case it's not already, I don't see anything on the steam side that is correct, so it's basically a complete do over.

Someone else commented on the oil piping, if that's wrong then roughly speaking the completely disconnect and strip everything back and start over.

I wouldn't hold my breathe for them to fix it, but it also depends on what is in the contract. If there is anything about manufacturers spec you have leverage.

EBEBRATT-Ed

@GigiRod

It requires someone to read the boiler manual.........the installer should it's his job but if he won't and you wan't things fixed your going to have to read it or put up with there sloppy work.


The boiler manual will tell you everything you need to know, pipe sizes, location of the skim tapping, how to skim the boiler etc etc

STEAM DOCTOR

Skim tapping is on back of the boiler. 

SlamDunk

In my area, 3" black pipe is 30% more expensive than 2". . And, 3" fiitings are more expensive than 2". So, you'll get resistance there. This contractor will also eat his profits in labor if he has to re do. You have a right to have it done correctly. You might get lucky. Your contractor may be reputable.

GigiRod

Thank you all for your feedback.

So based on manual diagrams and comments these are the things I need to be sure are fixed on the repipe:

Fyi, the boiler has 3 sections, so 1-1/2" is ok for the equalizer.

• The header reduces on the horizontal rather than reducing at the elbow/vertically into the equalizer. This will result in water getting trapped
• In the Hartford loop, the pipe going into the equalizer tee is too long and should be a close or shoulder nipple. There should be no union there. As is, this may result in banging/hammer.
• Could this be resolved with a wye fitting? Or does the wet return need to be further back? He attached the loop to the original wet return, didn't modify it.
  
• Height to the top of the Hartford loop is ~18", it should be about 20-21" since the normal water level is 23-1/2". I'm not clear from previous threads what issue this will cause.
• The supply riser and header should be 3", here it is 2". This will result in wet steam and pulling more water out of the boiler.
• Is it ok if the takeoffs to the mains are 2"? Or should those be 3" also?
• And is the angle of the take-offs ok? (I included a picture from the right side)
• The counterflow main (the connection going backward) connects straight to the riser. There should be a 90 elbow from the supply riser, then the take-off comes after.
• The diagram doesn't show what to do for a counterflow main. The long one going forward is the one that runs the length of the house and joins the wet return. As far as I can tell the counterflow does not have a drip line and never had one in the original setup.
• How should the counterflow main be dripped? Should it go next to the equalizer like it did in the original? Does a new pipe need to go from it to the wet return?
• Lastly, oil line should not use compression fittings and there should be a firomatic valve. I will leave this to the oil company tech to fix.

KC_Jones

GigiRod said:

TAnd is the angle of the take-offs ok? (I included a picture from the right side)

The mains are to come off the top of the header. This is to further separate the water from the steam, which is the primary function of the header. The main coming off the side will allow water access to that main, how much trouble it causes may be debatable. One thing I can say, since you have a return, that pipe is sloping the wrong way anyway. The highest point of a parallel flow main (one that has a separate return) is to be at the boiler above the header and slope down from there.