Replacing steam valves

Handymandy327

Help! I am new here. We just installed a boiler as the home previously had one but the previous owners removed it so we added it back. Well it’s now up and running but some of the radiators make a lot of noise. The installers recommended switching out the vents. Well the radiators are recessed in the wall. I attempted to remove one of the vents but it broke off. Any idea how I get this piece out of here?? That bolt will not budge and I cant seem to find a socket wrench that will grip it to turn. Do I really have to tear down the wall?? Pics included of the wall and the piece that broke. 

delcrossv

The experts may have a better ideas but I'd start with PB Blaster on the threads, then get one person on a pipe wrench on the coupling below the vent and a socket wrench on the vent itself.

Jamie Hall

Well that's pesky of it.

I'll get to that in a moment, but first... can you describe the noises? There are many different noises a steam system can make (it really shouldn't make any) -- and as many or more causes for them. But vents, unless the noise is a whistle, are rarely the exact culprit. So if you can describe what is going on, maybe we can figure out what to do to make it shut up.

Now. I'm not quite sure what that widget was before it broke. I have to admit that it doesn't quite look like bits and pieces of a vent, but it might be. To get it off, though... my first thought would be to find a deep socket which you can destroy and which is a smidge smaller than that hex (e.g. -- if that hex is about 3/4 inch, try a 18 mm) and pound it on there. Use ample PB Blaster or equivalent. Then if you can get in there with an impact wrench, try that. Otherwise you can hope you can get at least a two tooth swing on a ratchet wrench and see if you can get it. Otherwise, your point of attack is going to be that reducer. Your clearances are to tight for a nutcracker, so you will need to cut a couple of slits in that reducer if you can get in there. It looks to me as though there may just barely be clearance to get a Dremel and its cutting wheel in there. Once you get some slits, you may be able to spring it open enough with a cold chisel to get it out of there.

good luck...

mattmia2

Looks like a half or 3/4 inch Male steam air vent. Try a deep well socket and an extension and ratchet. Try to hold the coupling with a pipe wrench if you can.

It was something like this:
https://www.supplyhouse.com/Hoffman-401413-4A-1-2-x-3-4-Straight-Steam-Main-Air-Valve-8037000-p

I think those are trane convectors but others would know better.

clammy

Carbonics pipe break is the product to use, spray it on rap on the pipe and wait a few minutes to do it’s magic and then dis assembly . I ve used every product out there over the years and this stuff is clearly the stuff . I ve removed piped that where we’ll over 50 years old using this stuff not that it will do everything but it’s clearly the best I ve used ever as compared to other products it does smell but it does work . Peace and good luck clammy

Handymandy327

mattmia2 said:

Looks like a half or 3/4 inch Male steam air vent. Try a deep well socket and an extension and ratchet. Try to hold the coupling with a pipe wrench if you can. It was something like this: https://www.supplyhouse.com/Hoffman-401413-4A-1-2-x-3-4-Straight-Steam-Main-Air-Valve-8037000-p I think those are trane convectors but others would know better.

That’s the steam air vent im replacing them with. But the bottom piece is the same. I tried a deep well socket with an extension and wrench. I used a 11/4 but it still won’t grip the bolt to turn it. It’s such a tight fit I don’t think I can get a pipe wrench in there 

Handymandy327

Jamie Hall said:

Well that's pesky of it. I'll get to that in a moment, but first... can you describe the noises? There are many different noises a steam system can make (it really shouldn't make any) -- and as many or more causes for them. But vents, unless the noise is a whistle, are rarely the exact culprit. So if you can describe what is going on, maybe we can figure out what to do to make it shut up. Now. I'm not quite sure what that widget was before it broke. I have to admit that it doesn't quite look like bits and pieces of a vent, but it might be. To get it off, though... my first thought would be to find a deep socket which you can destroy and which is a smidge smaller than that hex (e.g. -- if that hex is about 3/4 inch, try a 18 mm) and pound it on there. Use ample PB Blaster or equivalent. Then if you can get in there with an impact wrench, try that. Otherwise you can hope you can get at least a two tooth swing on a ratchet wrench and see if you can get it. Otherwise, your point of attack is going to be that reducer. Your clearances are to tight for a nutcracker, so you will need to cut a couple of slits in that reducer if you can get in there. It looks to me as though there may just barely be clearance to get a Dremel and its cutting wheel in there. Once you get some slits, you may be able to spring it open enough with a cold chisel to get it out of there. good luck...

The noise is like a whistle or it blowing the steam. The installer said it was the vents. I was able to replace one of them and it did stop on that one so I assume that is the problem. 

I tried a deep socket wrench. I used 1 1/4 but it still didn’t get on the bolt. Maybe if I pound it though it will get stuck. I don’t think I can fit an impact wrench in there. 

I will try the dremel. Hopefully I can rent that instead of buying one 😅

Jamie Hall

If the sound is a whistle sort of, and it's coming from the vents... check you system pressure and make sure the cutoff is below 2 psi.

Handymandy327

delcrossv said:

The experts may have a better ideas but I'd start with PB Blaster on the threads, then get one person on a pipe wrench on the coupling below the vent and a socket wrench on the vent itself.

Will definitely try the pb blaster. I’m not sure if we can reach the socket wrench below the vent tho. It’s just a hallow cut out on the floor

Handymandy327

clammy said:

Carbonics pipe break is the product to use, spray it on rap on the pipe and wait a few minutes to do it’s magic and then dis assembly . I ve used every product out there over the years and this stuff is clearly the stuff . I ve removed piped that where we’ll over 50 years old using this stuff not that it will do everything but it’s clearly the best I ve used ever as compared to other products it does smell but it does work . Peace and good luck clammy

Where can I find that? I tried googling carbonic pipe break but nothing useful came up. Thanks!

Dan_NJ

Could it be this - Calfonex Pipe Break? https://www.amazon.com/Pipe-Break-Penetrating-Attached-Penetrant/dp/B071H983M4

JUGHNE

Maybe a good quality basin wrench. Look for one in a plumbing store.
It needs to have good teeth.

Try all the spray several times.
You can put a pipe wrench on the handle to get leverage.
It is called abusing the tool but that is what they are for, to be used.

Handymandy327

Just wanted to update that we ended up having to cut a whole in the wall. So will not be changing out the other ones anytime soon 😅 I can deal with the whistling for now

mattmia2

I still don't see why if you measure that and get a deep well socket that size you can't remove it with a ratchet and extension(s) long enough to get out of the air outlet opening. shower valve sockets are also an option but would be harder to turn because you would have to do it down inside the enclosure.

Handymandy327

mattmia2 said:

I still don't see why if you measure that and get a deep well socket that size you can't remove it with a ratchet and extension(s) long enough to get out of the air outlet opening. shower valve sockets are also an option but would be harder to turn because you would have to do it down inside the enclosure.

We tried multiple sockets. Even the installation company came out to try. We couldn’t find a socket that would fit and/or get a grip to turn it. Can try again in the summer when we don’t have to have the heat running 

mattmia2

I would measure it with a micrometer or a caliper then try to match it up to a standard english or metric socket size and order that socket from someone like zoro or mcmaster-carr.

KC_Jones

Maybe it's just the angle of the picture, but that almost looks like an 8 point, not a 6 point. That would contribute to limiting socket choice. If that's the case would need an 8 point socket, which could explain having trouble getting one to fit.

Again, maybe it's just a weird angle in the picture.

mattmia2

KC_Jones said:

Maybe it's just the angle of the picture, but that almost looks like an 8 point, not a 6 point. That would contribute to limiting socket choice. If that's the case would need an 8 point socket, which could explain having trouble getting one to fit.

Again, maybe it's just a weird angle in the picture.

I didn't catch that, but I think it is.

delcrossv

Sure looks like it. Good catch. I know Proto makes 8 point sockets, probably can get a cheap set off Amazon.

ethicalpaul

Handymandy327 said:

Just wanted to update that we ended up having to cut a whole in the wall. So will not be changing out the other ones anytime soon 😅 I can deal with the whistling for now

Don't miss Jamie's helpful post where he mentioned that your steam pressure may be too high if you hear whistling...you shouldn't have to deal with whistling, even if the vents do leak a bit (the pressure should never be high enough to cause a whistle).

But long term you really don't want leaking vents, so do keep an eye on them and mark any leakers for replacement when convenient

JUGHNE

Compare the flats on it to the flats on the reducing bushing below.

KC_Jones

JUGHNE said:

Compare the flats on it to the flats on the reducing bushing below.

That definitely confirms 8 point for me, I will remember to look down next time.

An old boss would have called that a "forest for the trees kind of thing".