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Boiler installed on Carpet...not a good thing!

JUGHNE
JUGHNE Member Posts: 9,763
edited October 2021 in THE MAIN WALL
HO called concerned about the age of boiler and charred carpet under it.
It was a NG 100,000 input cast iron.

Stuck in a closet on the main floor. No basement.
Double wide modular from maybe the 60's, the HO said.





The components were as you see, very difficult to service.
Some poor soul may have changed the pump in the past.
Even reaching the outlet was a challenge.

Hydrotherm tag does say "not for installation on combustible flooring with out special sub base"

Ho wanted a larger WH, this was a 30 gallon. So squeezed a 50 gallon tank in there.

Solid door on closet, no other openings.
Now has full louvered door and 4 X 14 opening in floor to crawl space.
Corner of boiler fell thru the floor when sliding it out.
A 4" circle had been charred thru the wood (3/4" particle board)



New 74,000 input Buderus/Bosch GC124/19. Approved for combustible floor...has riser legs.

Added 4" concrete blocks under it also, just for HO security.
Had to remove floor and replace with 3/4" plywood.
Boiler is only 228 lbs, but 50 Gal WH is 563 lbs.

1500 sq ft house has 100' of 3/4" BB fin tube.
If I calculated correctly that can only deliver 55,000 at 170 degrees.
Boiler output is 62,000. Older HO likes the house temp near 80.
It is the only one that would fit in the closet and still have factory clearances.
Including 6" in the back from the draft diverter.

All the components are stacked up above the boiler and can be reached standing in the door way. LWCO added.

If needed, boiler can be disconnected with 4 unions and electrical unhooked.

Slide out of closet to change WH if needed.

No options to enlarge the room, hallway to the left.....electrical panel in wall to the right facing washer dryer nook and tub/shower to the back.
STEVEusaPAratioAlan (California Radiant) ForbesPC7060EdTheHeaterManJakeCKlkstdlCarlosTorresCanuckerBoonmattmia2jamplumb

Comments

  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 18,949
    nice job!
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    JUGHNE
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 5,689
    Shoe-horned it in there. What are the requirements for combustion air?
    steve
    JUGHNE
  • Solid_Fuel_Man
    Solid_Fuel_Man Member Posts: 2,456
    edited October 2021
    Nice show horn install!


    May I ask why not a wall hung for space reasons alone?
    Serving Northern Maine HVAC & Controls. I burn wood, it smells good!
    JUGHNEDerheatmeistermattmia2MadecksMechanical1
  • Derheatmeister
    Derheatmeister Member Posts: 1,280
    Nice job..A wallhung combi may have been nice.
    MadecksMechanical1
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 12,007
    @JUGHNE

    Nice job but not a fun job!!
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 9,763
    Thanks for the compliments!

    For combustion air, as mentioned there is now a fully louvered door and the 4 x 14 into the crawl space.
    The standing pilot in the WH will keep the B vent warm. B vent has good height on it.
    This is in a double wide with an open addition added on. Not a super tight house.



    As far as a wall hung, had I not located this boiler that was the next plan.
    There was a good 6" B vent in place. Wall hung venting would have been not real easy, this is in the center of the house.

    Owners are in early 80's and personally I and them prefer the simple route of CI and a traditional WH.
    Most people at that age are not influenced by efficiency numbers, just that this route will be somewhat more efficient, and still be a simple set up that the locals could figure out if I am not available. All internal working parts are American sourced, HW etc.

    I have to look to the future for others to service things I now install. I am only 10 years younger than the HO couple. I know the local tradespeople. This is forced air country. Most are baffled by any Modcon and a Combi would really kick their buts.

    And boiler is rated at 85% AFUE. So running Mod con at 180 degrees for BB when the HO wants 78-80 degrees room temp would not be much better in efficiency. IMO
    I have had the usual problems with Modcons. Cleaning and parts can dump $500 to $1000 into them quickly, after warranty expires.
    I have one in my own house and know this.
    STEVEusaPAEdTheHeaterManCarlosTorresjamplumb
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 9,763
    Thanks ED, it was really a fun job.
    The people were very understanding.
    It is nice to visit with "older people" about local stories.
    Coffee, cookies and ice cream every day, sometimes lunch.

    The WH went in first in early summer. They were not without hot water overnight.
    The boiler went in later. I built up the assembly above on it at home and then got it in in one day.

    Did not fire up until about a month ago.
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 9,763
    And thanks, I believe to Erin, for flipping the picture 90 degrees.
    I can't figure out how to do that. :/
  • PC7060
    PC7060 Member Posts: 712
    edited October 2021
    @JUGHNE - nice work! Is this the same unit you mentioned in a PM last year?
    I recall you describing a job you had planned to work from the back of the closet out. 
  • bucksnort
    bucksnort Member Posts: 160
    Pics of sprinkler system not loading. The closed room probably kept the smoke alarm from going off 24/7
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 9,763
    PC, thank you, yea that is probably the job I talked about with the closet.
    There was another posting here about someone trying to change/fix his pump that was in the same location as this old one was.
    Well, here is the solution.

    bucksnort you lost me with the sprinkler system, maybe some other posting?
  • bucksnort
    bucksnort Member Posts: 160
    JUGHNE said:

    PC, thank you, yea that is probably the job I talked about with the closet.
    There was another posting here about someone trying to change/fix his pump that was in the same location as this old one was.
    Well, here is the solution.

    bucksnort you lost me with the sprinkler system, maybe some other posting?

    I thought maybe sprinklers saved the house. Looks like that thing was a fire breathing dragon with fire coming out of every orifice.
  • Erin Holohan Haskell
    Erin Holohan Haskell Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 1,864
    edited October 2021
    JUGHNE said:

    And thanks, I believe to Erin, for flipping the picture 90 degrees.
    I can't figure out how to do that. :/

    Yes, that was me. You're welcome, @JUGHNE. Nice work.

    I saved and then opened the photo on my computer, flipped it, saved it again, and then re-posted it. You can usually change the photo orientation on your phone before posting.
    President
    HeatingHelp.com
    JUGHNE
  • jad3675
    jad3675 Member Posts: 114
    Dumb question, but is the drip leg even needed for the WH, since it comes up from the floor?

  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 12,854
    jad3675 said:

    Dumb question, but is the drip leg even needed for the WH, since it comes up from the floor?

    I've wondered this too on some things, like furances where the gas pipe comes up and goes down directly into the top of the unit.

    For that water heater I'd expect the drip leg to be under the unit being fed like it always is. This way the "stuff" has an incentive to drop down into it.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 9,763
    edited October 2021
    I am not sure about the drip leg needed. I think they were there before.
    If not and I added them, then there are there......habits I guess.

    Note: I look back at the old installation pictures I see they were not there.
    Both lines had to be relocated somewhat.
    And then offset to hit the new gas valves, so not much more in the way of fittings.
    A tee, nipple and cap versus just a 90.
  • jad3675
    jad3675 Member Posts: 114
    JUGHNE said:

    I am not sure about the drip leg needed. I think they were there before.
    If not and I added them, then there are there......habits I guess.

    Note: I look back at the old installation pictures I see they were not there.
    Both lines had to be relocated somewhat.
    And then offset to hit the new gas valves, so not much more in the way of fittings.
    A tee, nipple and cap versus just a 90.

    Oh, yeah I wasn't criticizing, just curious if it was local code or habit, as you said.
    Great job on the install; I get a little claustrophobic looking at the pics.

    John
    JUGHNE
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 3,201
    I love it when a plan comes together!
    Edward Young
    Retired HVAC Contractor from So. Jersey.
    Services first oil burner at age 16
    P/T trainer for EH-CC.org
  • JakeCK
    JakeCK Member Posts: 715
    My legs and back are cramping up just looking at that in my 30's. I can't imagine contorting around that at 70.

    Did you say they provided coffee, cookies, ice cream, and lunch?
    JUGHNE
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 9,763
    edited October 2021
    Easy if you plan ahead.
    NG piping relocated under the floor when it was open.
    New flooring

    After that then all work done standing straight up or sitting on a bucket.

    New WH went in first of course.
    Electrical was extended to the front, light and switch added, also power disconnect for boiler.
    The supply and return were extended up above the boiler and to the front.
    Water supply extended towards the front with flare flare fittings.
    Boiler slid in.
    Flue piping completed.
    The upper pre-fitted piping assembly with all accessories was attached with union.
    Supply & return connected.
    Gas line done.
    Electrical completed.

    And you have heat!
    jamplumb
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 12,007
    Drip legs are required at all appliances.

    The only exceptions I know of are gas dryers are not required to have one and any appliances installed outdoors they are usually exempt due to any liquid freezing in the pipe

    But local codes differ

    New York has an issue with drip legs do to peoples stealing gas off of them.

    Others that know more will comment
  • mayna123
    mayna123 Member Posts: 11
    Did you say that this is a double wide mobile home? If so, these natural vent appliances are the wrong appliances to have been installed. No combustion air can come from the interior of a mobile home. These appliances have to get their fresh are from a sealed system or from the crawlspace and the utility room sealed from the interior of the home. (Plus the floor grate looks kinda small for the btu's these appliances are rated for.) Hopefully I misunderstood the description of the structure.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 12,854
    mayna123 said:

    Did you say that this is a double wide mobile home? If so, these natural vent appliances are the wrong appliances to have been installed. No combustion air can come from the interior of a mobile home. These appliances have to get their fresh are from a sealed system or from the crawlspace and the utility room sealed from the interior of the home. (Plus the floor grate looks kinda small for the btu's these appliances are rated for.) Hopefully I misunderstood the description of the structure.


    I personally would not interpret a modular as being a mobile home.
    In my world they're two totally different things.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 9,763
    As Chris said, this is a modular, 2 piece home.
    This is the same configuration of appliances as it came from the factory years ago.

    Here, a modular is treated the same as a stick build home.
    Some have basements with standard heating equipment installed.

    A mobile home (aka trailer house) has the special vented appliances.
    JakeCK
  • JakeCK
    JakeCK Member Posts: 715
    edited October 2021
    I had a highschool friend who lived in modular home. He had a sister a few years younger that I had a thing for, spent much of my summers over there. I can tell you modulars are completely different than mobile homes. Although I'd argue the quality was still subpar. Interior 2x2 wall construction and you could see the seam in the middle of the living room where the two halves were joined. But the structure was still on a permanent concrete foundation with an attached two car garage off the side. Oddly even with the cheap construction the master suite still had a massive jetted bathtub. lol
  • mayna123
    mayna123 Member Posts: 11
    Good to hear that it is a modular. In our area, when you say double wide, you are referring to a mobile home. A modular can be many wide and many stories. Thanks for responding to my question.