Peerless 61 wont fire up

jbori347

I have a peerless 61 series gas boiler that will not fire up when I put the thermostat up.
I've not tested anything with a multimeter yet because I'm not sure where to start. I know there is power going to all the components. I pressed the test button on the LWCS and the light turns on. I pressed the button on the auto water feeder and it sends water. the vent was set to "stay open" and when I flipped the switch it to "automatic" went to the closed position and has not moved from there. The pilot light is on. The thermostat is good. I did swap the Flame rollout switch thinking that was the problem but still will not fire. Just trying to get everything working before the cold Jersey winter hits us. I am mechanically inclined as a car mechanic and will have my multimeter with me tonight.

JUGHNE

You might have a limit on the draft diverter under the damper, look for wires, those are usually with a reset button.

jbori347

JUGHNE said:

You might have a limit on the draft diverter under the damper, look for wires, those are usually with a reset button.

I forgot to mention I did try pushing that reset button but it was not tripped.

EBEBRATT-Ed

@jbori347

Once you get you meter look for the wiring diagram and follow it through. Is this hot water or steam

jbori347

EBEBRATT-Ed said:

@jbori347

Once you get you meter look for the wiring diagram and follow it through. Is this hot water or steam

Its a Steam.

JUGHNE

After the vent damper closed, did you power down and back up to see what happens?
Where is the water level in the sight glass?
Your pressure control may be stuck open.

Have you cleaned the pigtail recently?

jbori347

JUGHNE said:

After the vent damper closed, did you power down and back up to see what happens?
Where is the water level in the sight glass?
Your pressure control may be stuck open.

Have you cleaned the pigtail recently?

after switching the vent damper to auto and it closed I did turn off the power and back on but it didn't move. I have not taken off the pigtail pipe. water level in glass is a little over halfway.
I also forgot to say I did turn on the heater and it turned on for about 20 min and then turned off and has not turned back on since.

JUGHNE

Pictures are helpful also.

jbori347

These are the pictures I currently have with me at work.

jbori347

I was able to confirm 24v out of transformer 24v into and out of lwco also 24v at the vent. However the vent is still closed 0v at the draft diverter. I’m not sure what else to test. Any guidance would be greatly appreciated. I have attached more photos. 

jbori347

JUGHNE

The vent damper must be open, either manually or by its motor.
If manually opened there may be a switch for manual operation.
When open it closes a switch to complete the call for heat.

The pressuretrol switch (high limit in diagram) must be closed for firing.
Do you show 24 across the two screws on the control?

jbori347

JUGHNE said:

The vent damper must be open, either manually or by its motor. If manually opened there may be a switch for manual operation. When open it closes a switch to complete the call for heat. The pressuretrol switch (high limit in diagram) must be closed for firing. Do you show 24 across the two screws on the control?

No I’m getting 0v across those 2 screws. How can I get the vent back open it has a switch on the side for either “hold open” or “automatic” it was originally on hold open and I flipped it to automatic and it shut and has not opened since.

JUGHNE

Can you just physically open the damper, so the shaft is parallel to the pipe, and put the switch in manual position?

jbori347

There is a lot of resistance I’m worried I might break something trying to force it open 

Hap_Hazzard

Make sure you remembered to turn the knob on the gas control to the "run" position after you lit the pilot. I'm suggesting this because it just happened to me and it had me scratching my head for a while.

Other than that, my usual approach is to take a clip lead and bypass every switch that has to be closed to make it fire—pressuretrol, thermostat, LWCO, vent damper—until it fires. If you can bypass all of them and it still won't fire, you might have a bad gas valve.

IMO, your pressuretrol is not mounted in the best place. The 30-0-30 gauge is only a couple of inches above the water line, so anything that floats to the top tends to end up in that tapping, which is probably why your gauge doesn't work. The upper glass gauge fitting is a better location.

jbori347

this is how everything is wired up

JUGHNE

So you have a Nest tstat?
Did you try removing it and tying the wires together at the wall? (R & W only)

The vent damper rotates in one direction only IIRC.
Somewhere there are instructions on how to manually open it and set the switch.

jbori347

JUGHNE said:

So you have a Nest tstat?
Did you try removing it and tying the wires together at the wall? (R & W only)

The vent damper rotates in one direction only IIRC.
Somewhere there are instructions on how to manually open it and set the switch.

I tried removing the tstat wires at the boiler and jumping them at the boiler but still nothing. I found a manual for a newer vent but does not give instructions on manually opening the valve. I will have to try again when I get home.

pecmsg

Hap_Hazzard said:

Make sure you remembered to turn the knob on the gas control to the "run" position after you lit the pilot. I'm suggesting this because it just happened to me and it had me scratching my head for a while.

Other than that, my usual approach is to take a clip lead and bypass every switch that has to be closed to make it fire—pressuretrol, thermostat, LWCO, vent damper—until it fires. If you can bypass all of them and it still won't fire, you might have a bad gas valve.

IMO, your pressuretrol is not mounted in the best place. The 30-0-30 gauge is only a couple of inches above the water line, so anything that floats to the top tends to end up in that tapping, which is probably why your gauge doesn't work. The upper glass gauge fitting is a better location.

I respectfully Disagree!

NEVER bypass a Safety, a meter is the only way to know!

Jamie Hall

It isn't hard to use a meter to check whether the safeties are closed... but it does take four measurements, not just one. One terminal to ground -- note voltage. Other terminal to ground -- the voltage must be exactly the same. Terminal to terminal. The voltage must be exactly zero. Switch to continuity. Terminal to terminal must show continuity.

jbori347

When testing the wires on the vent I get
1 - 2 24v
1 - 3 0v
1 - 4 0v
2 - 3 24v
2 - 4 24v
4 - 1 0v
4 - 3 0v

jbori347

Also get 24v across the flame rollout. Nothing at the high pressure or draft

STEAM DOCTOR

pecmsg said:

Make sure you remembered to turn the knob on the gas control to the "run" position after you lit the pilot. I'm suggesting this because it just happened to me and it had me scratching my head for a while. Other than that, my usual approach is to take a clip lead and bypass every switch that has to be closed to make it fire—pressuretrol, thermostat, LWCO, vent damper—until it fires. If you can bypass all of them and it still won't fire, you might have a bad gas valve. IMO, your pressuretrol is not mounted in the best place. The 30-0-30 gauge is only a couple of inches above the water line, so anything that floats to the top tends to end up in that tapping, which is probably why your gauge doesn't work. The upper glass gauge fitting is a better location.

I respectfully Disagree! NEVER bypass a Safety, a meter is the only way to know!

Nothing wrong with bypassing temporary. Just to find source of problem. Obviously,  don't run boiler for more then few seconds,  with damper closed. 

STEAM DOCTOR

Think that you have a bad vent damper. You can remove and bypass. Don't tell the feds. 

pecmsg

STEAM DOCTOR said:

pecmsg said:

Make sure you remembered to turn the knob on the gas control to the "run" position after you lit the pilot. I'm suggesting this because it just happened to me and it had me scratching my head for a while. Other than that, my usual approach is to take a clip lead and bypass every switch that has to be closed to make it fire—pressuretrol, thermostat, LWCO, vent damper—until it fires. If you can bypass all of them and it still won't fire, you might have a bad gas valve. IMO, your pressuretrol is not mounted in the best place. The 30-0-30 gauge is only a couple of inches above the water line, so anything that floats to the top tends to end up in that tapping, which is probably why your gauge doesn't work. The upper glass gauge fitting is a better location.

I respectfully Disagree! NEVER bypass a Safety, a meter is the only way to know!

Nothing wrong with bypassing temporary. Just to find source of problem. Obviously,  don't run boiler for more then few seconds,  with damper closed. 

I’ve found 4 with safety’s bypasses. Ooops they forgot. 

Take any licensing tests and Bypassing IS NOT allowed. 

Some systems read an open / closed to show nothing is bypassed then look for the opposite. 

Sorry but bypassing is cheating. 

JUGHNE

If you get 24 volts across the flame rollout then that switch is open.

Remove wires and check with ohmmeter to confirm open.

EBEBRATT-Ed

@jbori347

You have 4 wires going to the damper. Blue (24v hot) and white (24 v common) are powered all the time

Brown is the signal to open the damper check brown & white for 24 volts

If you don't have power leave 1 meter lead on white and with the other lead go to B on the low water cutoff

if you have power move the meter to White inlet wire on the high limit control. If no power the Nest is the issue. If you have power check the out wire on the high limit Then check the other side of the high limit also a white wire, then check the 24 v into the spill switch and out to the flame roll out switch until you get to the damper

STEAM DOCTOR

pecmsg said:

STEAM DOCTOR said:

pecmsg said:

Make sure you remembered to turn the knob on the gas control to the "run" position after you lit the pilot. I'm suggesting this because it just happened to me and it had me scratching my head for a while. Other than that, my usual approach is to take a clip lead and bypass every switch that has to be closed to make it fire—pressuretrol, thermostat, LWCO, vent damper—until it fires. If you can bypass all of them and it still won't fire, you might have a bad gas valve. IMO, your pressuretrol is not mounted in the best place. The 30-0-30 gauge is only a couple of inches above the water line, so anything that floats to the top tends to end up in that tapping, which is probably why your gauge doesn't work. The upper glass gauge fitting is a better location.

I respectfully Disagree! NEVER bypass a Safety, a meter is the only way to know!

Nothing wrong with bypassing temporary. Just to find source of problem. Obviously,  don't run boiler for more then few seconds,  with damper closed. 

I’ve found 4 with safety’s bypasses. Ooops they forgot. 

Take any licensing tests and Bypassing IS NOT allowed. 

Some systems read an open / closed to show nothing is bypassed then look for the opposite. 

Sorry but bypassing is cheating. 

Loose wire contact only. Nothing connected or screwed in. Obviously,  volt meter works fine as well. 

Hap_Hazzard

Jamie Hall said:

It isn't hard to use a meter to check whether the safeties are closed... but it does take four measurements, not just one. One terminal to ground -- note voltage. Other terminal to ground -- the voltage must be exactly the same. Terminal to terminal. The voltage must be exactly zero. Switch to continuity. Terminal to terminal must show continuity.

And if the switch opens while you're measuring continuity?

Jamie Hall

Hap_Hazzard said:

Jamie Hall said:

It isn't hard to use a meter to check whether the safeties are closed... but it does take four measurements, not just one. One terminal to ground -- note voltage. Other terminal to ground -- the voltage must be exactly the same. Terminal to terminal. The voltage must be exactly zero. Switch to continuity. Terminal to terminal must show continuity.

And if the switch opens while you're measuring continuity?

It stops beeping... ?

jbori347

Update as to what I’ve done. I removed the thermostat wires coming from the thermostat (R W C) so that the thermostat is not in the equation. I connected the R and W together at the boiler to simulate a call for heat I drained water and watched the LWCO cut in and fill the water. I swapped the vent damper with the one from the second floor that I know works (multi family house) still I get no heat also no power between spill switch or high limit control. I do have 24v across flame rollout. I jumped the vent damper between the orange and yellow wires on the damper side and the boiler turns on. Where should I go from here?

jbori347

also checked for continuity between the terminals of high limit switch and spill switch and there is continuity 

JUGHNE

If you have 24 volts across the flame rollout switch, that is an open switch, that is usually closed, and keeps the boiler from firing.

It is usually a one time fuse.

The flame may have rolled out at sometime when the vent damper did not open.
If so then it did it's job.

So in the interest of safety set your gas valve to pilot only.

Turn the power off.

Connect your volt meter to the gas valve terminals.

Jumper the roll out fuse, (temporality).

Turn the power on.

Vent damper should open

24 volts should show at the gas valve.

If so then the rollout fuse is the problem.

You could turn the gas valve to "on" for a few minutes to check that the fuse was the only problem besides the vent damper.

You Can NOT run the boiler this way....remove the jumper!

Shut everything down until you get a replacement fuse/switch.

Do NOT leave the jumper in place!!

Change the part and see if boiler fires.

jbori347

JUGHNE said:

If you have 24 volts across the flame rollout switch, that is an open switch, that is usually closed, and keeps the boiler from firing. It is usually a one time fuse. The flame may have rolled out at sometime when the vent damper did not open. If so then it did it's job. So in the interest of safety set your gas valve to pilot only. Turn the power off. Connect your volt meter to the gas valve terminals. Jumper the roll out fuse, (temporality). Turn the power on. Vent damper should open 24 volts should show at the gas valve. If so then the rollout fuse is the problem. You could turn the gas valve to "on" for a few minutes to check that the fuse was the only problem besides the vent damper. You Can NOT run the boiler this way....remove the jumper! Shut everything down until you get a replacement fuse/switch. Do NOT leave the jumper in place!! Change the part and see if boiler fires.

You were 100% correct it was the flame rollout switch! I now have heat. Thank you all for the help!!!

JUGHNE

-----You can NOT leave the jumper in place and even leave the room!!----
You must replace it with factory part. Get 2 maybe.
Also get a new vent damper to match yours.

jbori347

I actually had a small pack of them. Before I did any testing I had swapped it with what I thought was a new one. That’s why I didn’t believe it was that switch. I guess the one I put in at the start was defective. After briefly jumping it to confirm everything I put in a new switch. Again thanks for all the help