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Slant/Fin gas fired Steam boiler?

yazz100
yazz100 Member Posts: 5
Hi, I'm new here...need a steam, gas fired boiler installed... I could have sworn the plumber was installing Weil MnLain...buthe's now telling me it's SLant/FIn. He says they are a very good boiler. Origionally I had Wel McLain lasted 23 yrs the Peerless lased 9 yrs (they wouldn't honor warrenty)...now I'm afraid with the SLant/FIn as I've nerver heard of it. Any input wouod be greqatly appreciated...

Comments

  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 15,331
    edited September 2021
    We install quite a few Slant/Fin boilers. Good product from a good company. Be sure they follow the installation instructions to the letter, as with all boilers. In particular, the steam header needs to be at least 2-1/2"- do not allow them to reduce this size.

    Also- why did the Peerless fail? Did it crack, or rot out above the waterline?
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 11,996
    @yazz100

    Take @Steamhead advise seriously. The pages of this forum are filled every year with installations gone wrong.

    You don't want to be on that list.

    Most installers (and yours may or may not be one of them) will tell you they have been doing this for 40 years and for 40 years they have been doing it wrong. Happens that more steam installations are done wrong than are done right

    Peerless, Slant Fin and Weil mclain are all good boilers if installed RIGHT.

    When you know what boiler he is using download the install manual and read it there is a piping diagram in the manual he must follow....no cheating on pipe size etc. And the boiler must be skimmed.

    Also, it would be a good idea to calculate the EDR of all your radiators to make sure you get the right sized boiler...we can help if you don't know how

    Your installed should have already done that.....if not I would be extreamely cautious about using him
    PC7060
  • yazz100
    yazz100 Member Posts: 5
    Hi, Thank you... as a 67 yr old feamale, trying to make sure things are done properly, I do appreciate your speedy responses. Yes I've read that a boiler is only s good as the instillation... with that said I have changed plumbers due to the origional plumers lack of correspondance...it literally took him from late Feb to early June to give an estimate ( I "gently" contacted him 5 times on this in order to get any response) and then another 2 months to give specs of the Utica boiler he intstalls (had to bring up concerns of a timely installation given response times)...BTW it took him 3 months to even contack Peerless regarding the warrenty...Needless to say, I felt like he didn't want the job and startrd looking for another plumber. The new guy I fund was recommended by numerous people in town. He did size the radiators etc for boiler size. I will certianly take your advice and manual downoad for pipe size etc.

    The Peerless cracked after 9 yrs...I had it serviced annually...Peerless said the boiler had oxidative corosion which voided the warrenty...with that said I asked my plumber what would have caused the corosion...he said he didn't see anything that would cause it except possiby the automatic feeder or if I had hard water. Obviously I am concerned this will reoccur with a new boiler, so I'm thinking of disconnecting the automatic feeder (although concerned what happens if I go away for any length of time in the winter...no one here to check water levels). He also said adding water softners can help, however I don't have hard water form what I can tell...no mineral deposits on shower head faucets, etc...so not sure about this or if it is good just as a preventive (suggestions welcome!)
    Thank you :)
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 18,931
    Argh... well, first, do NOT use softened water in a boiler -- the stuff is remarkably corrosive.

    Second, how much water is being fed? If you are feeding more than a gallon or so a month, you have a leak somewhere in the system -- or leaks (the most common culprits are the radiator valves) -- and the added water will cause excess corrosion. The automatic water feeder may have a counter on it; if so you can easily see how much water is being added.

    Where are you located? We may know someone knowledgeable in steam in your area.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 11,996
    @yazz100

    It's important to know how much water is added to a steam boiler. Excessive amounts of make up water brings new oxygen into the boiler and causes corrosion.

    As @Jamie Hall mentioned some of the modern feeders have a counter that will read out how much water is added over time.

    You could have a moderately sized leak somewhere or a bunch of small leaks (air vents, packing nuts etc)

    First thing I would look for is to see if you have any underground wet returns. Look around the back of you boiler and see if you have any pipes coming up through the floor. They can be the source of leaks.

    In general a water leak you would see a steam leak you may not see and leaking steam means losing water
  • yazz100
    yazz100 Member Posts: 5
    edited September 2021
    HI I'm in the Hasckensack NJ area...If you do know anyone here I
    d appreciate the recommendation. Got it thanks...water conditioners are a no go.
    I don't have any steam leaks I know of...and if it's hidden then I wouldn't know. My plumber said there weren't any in pipes near the boiler. The water feed does have a counter I'll check it....not sure if it's dated though. ALl I've seen was a run of numbers
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 15,331
    @yazz100 , you have quite a selection. @JohnNY , @clammy and @EzzyT to begin with, and you can't go wrong with any of them.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
    JohnNYCanucker
  • EzzyT
    EzzyT Member Posts: 1,201
    @yazz100 you can reach me at 2018878856.
    yazz100
  • WMno57
    WMno57 Member Posts: 308
    Water softeners are wonderful. If you have hard water, your dishwasher, washing machine, and water heater will all last longer if you supply those appliances with softened water.
    This DOES NOT APPLY TO BOILERS.
    Water softeners add sodium to water. Sodium is inversely soluble in relation to temperature (unlike calcium and magnesium). At the higher temperatures of your boiler, the sodium will stay in solution, and cause corrosion.
    If you have a water softener, feed your boiler un-softened water, by piping it upstream from the water softener.
    There are special water treatment systems for boilers. These DO NOT add sodium to the water.
    If you do have hard water, you may want to have your installer do the initial fill of your system with water that has minerals removed.
    The installer should also repair any leaks in your system. Doing this will reduce the amount of make up water required during operation. Make up water has oxygen. Oxygen also causes corrosion.

  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 2,887
    The hard water and excessive usage is disturbing.
    Have a water meter installed so the actual usage can be tracked.
    @JohnNY , @clammy and @EzzyT are the ones you want!
    yazz100
  • yazz100
    yazz100 Member Posts: 5
    Thank you all for your advice...I do have an automatice feeder but I don't believe it has dates, just numbers. I went to look at it but there backlights are off...ok I admit I'm not very good at all this lol
  • STEAM DOCTOR
    STEAM DOCTOR Member Posts: 1,485
    @yazz100. Don't be so sure that you don't have leaks. Steam leaks can be hard to see. Not uncommon that I get calls from customers who are convinced they do not have have any leaks. Between main air vents, radiator air vents and radiator shutoff valves,  I often find 10+ leaks. And these are in small residential homes. 
    yazz100
  • STEAM DOCTOR
    STEAM DOCTOR Member Posts: 1,485
    I do not see a lot of Slant Fin steam boilers in my area. But they do seem to have a rather short life. 15 years seems to be normal. But again, that is from a very small sample size and certainly possible that there were other factors in each scenario. 
    yazz100
  • yazz100
    yazz100 Member Posts: 5
    I undersatand and brought that up to my plumber...
    The origional plumber stood by the fact that he said there were no leaks..but the new guy said he'd have to wait till the heat is going and hes checking vales and possible leaks.
  • EzzyT
    EzzyT Member Posts: 1,201
    So this one was repiped today and thanks to @clammy for helping out.
    KC_JonesSteve Minnich
  • STEAM DOCTOR
    STEAM DOCTOR Member Posts: 1,485
    @EzzyT. Beautiful install. One interesting observation about the Slantfin boiler. The steam chest is the back of the boiler. The boiler steam riser is in the front of the right hand section. The steam in all of the left sections, need to rise to the top of the boiler, travel to steam chest in back, hand a hard right to far right section, hang another hard right to riser tapping in front of right hand section. Just found interesting. Peerless, Weil mclain, crown Burnham have the steam risers in the steam chest. 
  • The Steam Whisperer
    The Steam Whisperer Member Posts: 926
    The steam chest design is one of the things I especially like on the boiler. The couple of hard turns probably helps seperate the water and steam and the end section probably has a lot less violent boil since it is so wide, so water can separate better. There's also the inclined plane near the tapping that probably helps it make dry steam. Its the only boiler I know that has no carryover into the header at 180,000 btu/hr input with just a little 2 1/2 inch riser. The built in skimmer is also great. Slant Fin really seemed to come up with a unique and good design with these boilers.
    To learn more about this professional, click here to visit their ad in Find A Contractor.
  • offdutytech
    offdutytech Member Posts: 67
    Finishing up an install on a similar boiler tomm. EzzT def liked the way you did the header! 
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 15,331

    Finishing up an install on a similar boiler tomm. EzzT def liked the way you did the header! 

    Pics!
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • offdutytech
    offdutytech Member Posts: 67
    Here are a few in progress pics. Couldn't finish had to track down more 2.5" Fittings
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 15,331
    Looks good so far. You're going to replace that old main vent, right?
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • offdutytech
    offdutytech Member Posts: 67
    Thanks! 
    Yes actually we are going to install and balance all the radiator vents. Have them in the boxes and ready to go.
  • offdutytech
    offdutytech Member Posts: 67

  • offdutytech
    offdutytech Member Posts: 67
    edited October 2021
    Finished job. Skimmed and running. Follow up next to check on the system.
  • The Steam Whisperer
    The Steam Whisperer Member Posts: 926
    Looks nice! On these boilers we use the front return tapping since we run the headers across the boiler like you have.
    To learn more about this professional, click here to visit their ad in Find A Contractor.
  • offdutytech
    offdutytech Member Posts: 67
    The one that's just above the burner section? I was looking at that today and thought that would have made thinks a little easier. This is the first Slant Fin Steamer I've installed.  Kinda wish they had more tapping options like some of the other manufactures I've installed over the years. We are trying to settle on a steam boiler line. 
    In the Detroit area Utica, Crown, Burnham, and Slant Fin seem to the lines supply houses carry. I haven't seen too many new Peerless or Weil in the area. 
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 15,331
    @offdutytech , does your company advertise on the Find a Contractor page of this site? If not, it would be worth it to do so. Currently there is no one listed in the Detroit area.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
    Erin Holohan Haskell
  • offdutytech
    offdutytech Member Posts: 67
    @Steamhead No we don't. We really don't advertise at all aside from the lettering on the vans. More referral work or social media. Two of us are full time firefighters and the boss is a retired one. The other two guys are more helpers. As it is now we are constantly booked with work, but somehow I keep selling boiler jobs and the boss keeps shaking his head lol
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 11,996
    @offdutytech

    Nice job!

    If you were listed on hear as @Steamhead suggested you would have to quit fire fighting, drag your boss out of retirement and hire a few more people (if you can find them)

    A lot of poster on here from Detroit who can't seem to find anyone
  • offdutytech
    offdutytech Member Posts: 67
    edited October 2021
    @EBEBRATT-Ed
    Thanks! Nah I quit doing HVAC after 20 years for a main career. Then switched to full time firefighter at 40 years old. Sure why not only work 10 days a month doing the fire gig, I'll have all this free time to travel, go duck hunting lol. Then I started to get bored so started back in HVAC part time. At least now I can pick the fun HVAC stuff to me Steam and Hot Water. It's true there's a shortage of resi companies that know how to work on Steam in the Detroit area. The commercial companies seem to stick to the big stuff and won't touch anything less than 15 PSI
  • The Steam Whisperer
    The Steam Whisperer Member Posts: 926
    Yes, the tapping above the burners is the other return. This is the return used on the modular steam boiler installs. Detroit is one of the areas I may expand to if I decide to move beyond Chicago.
    To learn more about this professional, click here to visit their ad in Find A Contractor.
    offdutytech
  • Steve Minnich
    Steve Minnich Member Posts: 2,756
    @Steamhead No we don't. We really don't advertise at all aside from the lettering on the vans. More referral work or social media. Two of us are full time firefighters and the boss is a retired one. The other two guys are more helpers. As it is now we are constantly booked with work, but somehow I keep selling boiler jobs and the boss keeps shaking his head lol
    There are sales leads and then there are leads that come from Find a Contractor. The leads I got from FAC were people that were well informed and serious about getting quality work done on their system. It’ll be money well spent. 
    Steve Minnich
    Minnich Hydronic Consulting & Design, LLC
    [email protected]
    offdutytechErin Holohan Haskell
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 11,996
    @Steve Minnich

    LOL, or people that have been put through the mill by their previous contractor
    Steve Minnich