Convert to gas or stay with oil?

curiousman

I have an old oil boiler and tank that needs to be replaced. I have a gas line at my house but I like oil so I'd like some advice. It seems most plumbers and hvac guys prefer gas. After the big gas explosion in North Andover MA a few years ago I'm more skeptical of gas. The only concern I have with oil is the possible tank leaking in my basement. Any advice and feedback is appreciated.

ethicalpaul

Well gas is cheaper, cleaner, less smelly, doesn't require deliveries, quieter, doesn't clog in the feed line, and requires far less boiler maintenance but other than that, oil is fine

Hot_water_fan

@ethicalpaul as the saying goes, now we're cooking with heating oil

STEVEusaPA

ethicalpaul said:

Well gas is cheaper, cleaner, less smelly, doesn't require deliveries, quieter, doesn't clog in the feed line, and requires far less boiler maintenance but other than that, oil is fine

Not necessarily cheaper (especially over the last 5 years), and doesn't really burn cleaner than modern equipment. It only smells if not properly handled and stored. Doesn't clog when properly maintained. Mod con gas boilers require proper annual maintenance too.

I'd recommend getting a proper heat loss performed so you put in the properly sized equipment.
Energy Kinetics is a great choice, and most of their models can fire oil and will take a gas gun.

There are also double wall tanks to ease you mind of spilling.
Oil wipes up...gas blows up.

Plumbers and HVAC guys who prefer gas usually do because its easier/cheaper to install, and they don't bother learning how to properly work on oil, nor will they get the proper tools.

Robert O'Brien

When fossil fuels are legislated against, a drop in option exists to replace heating oil

Jamie Hall

Where, exactly, are you? Whether you can convert to gas at all depends on where you live -- some communities in eastern Massachusetts are restricting or are about to restrict or flat prohibit new installs, and the possibilities are limited in parts of New York as well. Check with your gas company

If it were me I'd stay with oil at this point... until all fossil fuels are prohibited our outrageously priced. This I don't know what to tell you.

curiousman

Hi Jamie Hall, I live 10 miles north of Boston.

Jamie Hall

That is one of the areas which is affected by the drive to eliminate new natural gas installs. Check with your gas company -- and your building and zoning enforcement people. The laws and regulations are changing very rapidly in that area.

ethicalpaul

Jamie Hall said:

Where, exactly, are you? Whether you can convert to gas at all depends on where you live -- some communities in eastern Massachusetts are restricting or are about to restrict or flat prohibit new installs, and the possibilities are limited in parts of New York as well. Check with your gas company

If it were me I'd stay with oil at this point... until all fossil fuels are prohibited our outrageously priced. This I don't know what to tell you.

He already has gas at the house I think he said. If it's already in the house, I can't think of more of a no-brainer but yeah some people just love a sticky stinky expensive (show me where oil is cheaper than gas to heat a house) substance having to be pumped by a truck every couple months into a tank that is 100% a hazardous waste liability. I don't get it.

Ctoilman

An oil leak is an inconvenience, a gas leak is a bomb in your home. 
Oil runs clean today (no sulphur content in fuel), oil has wayyyy more BTU than gas (that's what you're paying for), and oil equipment is better built/longer lasting.

ChrisJ

Ctoilman said:

An oil leak is an inconvenience, a gas leak is a bomb in your home. 
Oil runs clean today (no sulphur content in fuel), oil has wayyyy more BTU than gas (that's what you're paying for), and oil equipment is better built/longer lasting.

An oil leak is often an EPA nightmare. Gas leaks are much rarer than electrical fires.

I keep hearing how clean oil burns and yet I'm betting you'd smell it if vented into the structure. Not true with gas, and this is often used as a selling tool for oil. Fuel oil will never burn as clean as methane.

I guess equipment lasting longer depends. But it's a bit difficult for complicated burners to outlast a few hollow stainless steel pipes, brass jets and a gas valve. Many go 60+ years without being touched. So, mixed feelings on that one.

"More BTU than gas" is literally irrelevant. The cost per btu is what counts, the quantity of fuel is moot when one is supplied by an infinite pipe.

@curiousman I switched from oil to NG back in 2011 and had no doubts then it was the right move and still feel it was.

But, pricing is very different now. I'd say it depends on the cost of installation between the two options.
Both will heat your house equally well.
I personally hate the smell of oil when it gets on my hands, or anything around me. I also didn't want to deal with the maintenance of the equipment, tank issues etc.

Jamie Hall

The problem isn't which burns cleaner. Nor is it whether he already has gas in the house.

The problem, simplistically, is are the authorities having jurisdiction in his area going to allow increased gas service to his house? Or allow the gas company to provide that additional gas? Are they going to allow existing uses to continue down the road? He has to make sure of that before he even begins to think about changing.

Has almost nothing to do with the relative merits and costs of various fuels.

ethicalpaul

Tell you what Jamie. You send me $1000. Then I'll send you $10,000 when the authorities force people with existing gas furnaces to disconnect them.

Obviously, if he can't get gas service then the question is totally moot. All my points are based on a person who is able to get the appropriate gas service.

ChrisJ

Jamie Hall said:

The problem isn't which burns cleaner. Nor is it whether he already has gas in the house.

The problem, simplistically, is are the authorities having jurisdiction in his area going to allow increased gas service to his house? Or allow the gas company to provide that additional gas? Are they going to allow existing uses to continue down the road? He has to make sure of that before he even begins to think about changing.

Has almost nothing to do with the relative merits and costs of various fuels.

It's fun when you can't get oil delivered during a cold snap and you accidently ran out.

What's even more fun is when you pay an oil company ahead of time and they go bankrupt and take your money with them. That happened local to me and a lot of people ate it from what I heard. That happened with the company I had bought from shortly after I converted. I do not know the details, or what went down in the end other than a lot of angry customers and I was glad I had switched.

Natural gas rarely if ever "goes out" in most areas. I've never lost it in the 40 plus years I've been alive, not even for a second. My main backup generator runs on natural gas for a reason.

At the same time, there are plenty of good oil companies out there.

curiousman

If I stay with oil I'll be going with a Buderus but if I decide to go with gas I'd like to know if the Buderus noncondensing gas boilers are rated as high as their oil boilers?
I must say it's been an interesting experience learning about all this. I've learned a lot from theses forums. I personally like the German made products especially when it comes to hydronics. I was told by a Viessmann rep that in Europe they use 90% hydronics and in the USA it's about 90% forced hot air.

Lance

You can get a gas unit that uses no electricity or very little. It can have no moving motor parts, or compression devices. You pay as you go, no prepay for storage. No filters to change, no flues to clean. Costs less to repair, less to run, efficiency usually is constant without soot build up. No refractory to repair, and while you have gas, you can cook with it, run a fireplace without electricity or a back up generator if you are so inclined. Nat gas grills are an option. No propane or wood needed. But I do like wood and charcoal. Gas lamps can still be used today. Also you get a storage tank or two or space when you remove it. I have seen coal companies close, oil companies close, but no nat gas companies close.

curiousman

Like I mentioned before, I was seriously considering the switch to gas and I had the gas company run a line from the street to my house. However when the big gas explosion happened in N. Andover in 2018. I thought that maybe I should stay with oil.

If I go with gas is there some kind of device I can install outside my house to prevent what happened in N.Andover? Oil does have the leaking tank potential but gas can explode and also the carbon monoxide poisoning is another potential problem with gas. So if I go with gas I want to do whatever I can to make it as safe as possible.
I don't mind paying more for safety and quality.

Thanks for all your feedback. I hold all you tradesmen in high esteem, unlike many other professions and especially politicians...lol

JUGHNE

To the Wallies here, was the N Andover incident where the main was over pressurized because the pilot/sensing piping was not connected to the correct main?

And then did that high pressure blow thru regulators, some that were in the basement with the gas meters and the vent not run outside?

Would new installations have the meter and regulator outside and lessen the chance of many pounds of pressure entering the house?

This is from bits and pieces I have read in news stories.

ethicalpaul

Respectfully, I think your fear is unfounded. This freak event caused one death (poor guy trying to escape in his car got hit by a chimney that fell over) and 40 house fires.

Compare to lightning which in the US every year causes about 4400 house fires and about 16 deaths. EVERY YEAR

And regular old electrical fires? How about 5500 more house fires EVERY YEAR causing about 500 deaths.

Don't fear the scary giant event that you read about in the paper. Fear the normal every day event that can actually happen to you that happens so often you don't see it in the national news. The caller is already INSIDE THE HOUSE!!

Jamie Hall

As I have said -- I don't care for gas, having encountered a number of low level problems with it. But that's my preference. Some folks don't care for oil. That's their preference. There are things to be said for and against both fuel sources, and individuals have to evaluate them.

What I have been getting at, however, is that there is a drive in eastern Massachusetts in some Towns to flat out prohibit new installations (it's also present on the west coast as well), and there are restrictions in some areas concerning adding additional load onto existing gas connections as well.

It would at least prudent to determine if any such things are currently affecting the OP's property, or are likely to in the near future.

They have nothing to do with whether gas -- or oil -- is clean or safe or cheap or whatnot.

Years ago I had the dubious task of teaching planning and siting of larger infrastructure projects to budding engineers. The first lesson I taught them, and still the most important one, is this: given an adequate budget, you (I was teaching Civils at the time) can design and build anything your client wants in any location. You can't build anything at all, however, until you get your politics straightened out. Don't even begin planning, never mind designing, until you do. And that's not your job. That's the client's job.

ChrisJ

@Jamie Hall. I always respect your opinion and enjoy participating in threads with you.

However one thing that gets me is I've had gas all of my life but you have never had it.

STEVEusaPA

ChrisJ said:

@Jamie Hall. I always respect your opinion and enjoy participating in threads with you.

However one thing that gets me is I've had gas all of my life but you have never had it.

If you had gas all your life maybe you shouldn’t bring the standard antiquated views about heating oil to the site.

HVACNUT

curiousman said:

If I stay with oil I'll be going with a Buderus but if I decide to go with gas I'd like to know if the Buderus noncondensing gas boilers are rated as high as their oil boilers? 

A gas atmospheric boiler will not achieve the same combustion efficiency as a modern oil fired cast iron boiler.
A Buderus G115 with a Riello burner, indirect water heater, Hydrostat aquastat (wired and programmed correctly) is a very efficient system. 

There are so many safety's on today's gas boilers, blowing up shouldn't be a concern. Finding a competent contractor should be where your concerns are. This coming from a guy who likes to bath in #2 fuel I love it so much.

Oil or gas, you're likely looking at a stainless steel chimney liner as well. 

If you're comfortable with oil, upgrade the tank. See what's offered. There's different designs and warranties. 

The Buderus G115 can also be converted to gas fired. It still won't be as efficient, but more efficient than an atmospheric. 

curiousman

Hi hvacnut, I was told by several people that if I stay with oil I don't need to line the chimney. The chimney is in the center of the house and it has a clay lining. The house is 67 years old.

ChrisJ

STEVEusaPA said:

@Jamie Hall. I always respect your opinion and enjoy participating in threads with you.

However one thing that gets me is I've had gas all of my life but you have never had it.

If you had gas all your life maybe you shouldn’t bring the standard antiquated views about heating oil to the site.

I had a Beckett AFG from 2005.
I don't think what I experienced was antiquated.  I also feel I gave facts and unbiased info.

But thank you for being so kind.

HVACNUT

curiousman said:

Hi hvacnut, I was told by several people that if I stay with oil I don't need to line the chimney. The chimney is in the center of the house and it has a clay lining. The house is 67 years old.

Then you're likely ok, but if it hasn't been inspected, get it checked. We don't  want anyone blaming chimney issues on oil.

hot_rod

measure the flue gas temperature on a mod con and an oil fired boiler, both running 180F SWT.

What type of heat emitters? Is it possible to run lower SWT or operate via outdoor reset control? In addition to fuel savings, that could also help with comfort and equipment longevity.

I'd run a load calculation, do an emitter survey, then look at boiler and fuel options.

All boilers should have a yearly maintenance check and combustion analysis, so that cost is probably a wash.

Stove, dryer, barbecue?

The coalpail website has a realistic fuel cost calculator.

https://coalpail.com/fuel-comparison-calculator-home-heating