Dealing with elderly

Jamie Hall

You've hit on a sort of collection of things which older people -- myself included -- find really really annoying: gadgets or devices which require controls which look like they came off a rocket ship (though not so well engineered) half of which do things which you never would want to do and none of which are obvious.

And worse, much worse, which the salesperson can't explain and which can't be repaired.

Us old fogies aren't used to that. It's not that we are not perfectly capable of figuring things out (although sometimes -- smartphones are in this class -- some things can be darned hard to see) -- or at least most of use are capable -- it's that we don't see the point. A widget is supposed to serve a function, and serve it reliably and without fuss. And if it doesn't work, it should be possible to repair it in some straightforward way, unless it is insanely cheap. We weren't brought up in a throwaway society with all the bling and flash. There is an old Yankee saying: "Use it up, wear it out, make it do -- or do without" -- and we did. And do.

Larry Weingarten

Hi, This is for @rick in Alaska : And for @Jamie Hall , Your old Yankee saying found it's way to a book on water heaters that I've read. I used to work with a man named Steve Baer who created solar things and elegant simplicity was his approach. Complex just doesn't cut it when long lived and durable is the goal. Thanks for bringing these things up!

Yours, Larry

retiredguy

@EBEBRATT-ED The model 350 had the heaviest back section of any cast iron boiler I ever worked with. It weighed in at around 750# probably because it a one piece section.

So I show up at a new job to instruct a young company on how to assemble a 14 section H B Smith 350 the largest in that model line. I drive from Pittsburgh, Pa to a little past Breezwood and arrive at 7:00AM. All 3 workers were there sitting on chairs waiting for me. In the boiler room was the boiler sections and the accessories for the boiler; no tools, no chain falls, nothing. They said that they were waiting for me and were told that I had everything they needed on my truck. We constructed that boiler by hand. It was a long, trying and stressful day. since you know that boiler and how they are built, the 4 of us picked up that rear section by hand, set in on the 24" high base, then 2 held up the section in balance and 2 picked up the top header by hand and screwed in the 1st nipple. Then 3 guys picked up the front section , about 600 lbs or so while 1 guy held up "in balance" the rear section and the header. As I said, it was a long day.

I became very good at removing the top drum on all those boilers to grind a new gasket surface for the new nipple assemblies. On the biggest 640's and 650's steam boilers with the elliptical drum, we could do that job in 3 long days and bottom drums took 2 days. No wonder I am worn out.

When I started with my employer in 1973 the whole company was treated to a couple days at their plant in Westfield, Ma. We saw how they made their molds, poured the iron, pressure tested the sections and moved them into storage. We met the Smith Family and were treated like royalty. I guess all of that is gone now. One thing that I remember is that no one ever paid for a cracked boiler section. Even if the boiler was 25 years old, a cracked section was warranted at no cost to the boiler owner.

It turns out that the original "header", dealing with the elderly, turns out to be a discussion by the elderly

my 2 cents

woobagooba

Dealing with Accommodating the elderly

"Part of this may be less analytical ability and also maybe just short term memory problems where they may be able to learn but then quickly forget and become confused again. Having some experience with this I think keeping the present device (microwave , washing machine , thermostat or whatever) going as long as possible is the best solution."

You've hit the nail squarely on the head. Here is some perspective as a caregiver, renovator, and as someone in the IoT sector.

Just pulled out a confusing programmable TSTAT and put in a PRO1000 ... solved that problem. Replaced an older oven which had a couple knobs with a unit with a digital keypad ... substantial difficulties. Recent cook top replacement ... good luck finding induction with knob control.

As an IoT pro, the complexity of the various app driven systems is a problem. Usage of smart phones, tablets, web sites, password management, etc. Forget it. I also see a need for cooktops with auto shutoff timers.

I definitely see a gap in the aging-in-place market. I am surprised, with the boomers entering retirement, that this is the state of consumer appliances.

DanHolohan

@retiredguy, thanks for sharing that terrific story. I toured that factory once and also got to have a tunafish sandwich with Mr. Reed in his office. What a memory that is.

EBEBRATT-Ed

@DanHolohan & @retiredguy

Since I grew up and went to school 10 miles from Westfield Smith was all we knew. Every building around her had a Smith Boiler....well almost. When I took the Heat & Power Class at STCC we had a tour of the old plant 1972. One of our instructors used to work for Smith. Bad working conditions is all I can remember, smoke soot, heat and equipment from the 1800s

By the time we graduated we were convinced no other cast iron boiler existed and that the sun rose and set on Westfield, MA

If you needed a boiler in an emergency and the supply house didn't have it the supply house would call Smith and we cold pick it up over their.

@retiredguy

I remember now the old boiler with the humpback back section was a Smith Model #60 which presided the 640 Just awful to move. designed for coal.

Setting one of those up without a chainfall is suicide. Hard enough to get the nipples started even if your set up right

Jamie Hall

The original boiler in Cedric's home was an H. B. Smith -- and we still use the old steam drum as a polish on the steam from Cedric. Works just fine.

jhrost

EBEBRATT-Ed, a discussion by the elderly is a very good thing. Dan Holohans mission was to bring the insights of the "Deadmen" on steam heating to the present generation so they could benefit. Now this forum gives a chance for those of you who work in steam heat (tomorrows dead men, if that isn't too offensive a term) to talk to those who would learn about steam heat directly, rather then posthumously.

Woobagooba - I think you got the main drift of what I was talking about. I am sure there a lots of old people who are very sharp and embrace all the new technology. There are people though who were never technologically oriented and remember a time of no TV, radio, let alone all the others things that have come along. They benefitted from the advancements and came to depend on them, but with beginning cognitive problems have trouble adapting to new things - even new versions of the same thing. An old thing failing and being replaced with a new thing precipitates a crises.

At some point too much confusion may undermine their ability to live in their own homes, and I think everyone wants to do that as long as they can. So it is a shame that some accommodation to this group is not possible since it could be a life and death thing (especially this past year). This is probably not a glamorous prospect for designers or engineers I understand. I bet though that there are younger people who might appreciate more simplicity as well.

LS123

@jhrost .... "tomorrows dead men" IS definitely OFFENSIVE.... at least to me, the members I know... perhaps "experienced" would be better sounding.... sorry for bringing this out... I am at 49 and learning a lot from majority of the members who have lots of heating, cooling etc. experiences.

EBEBRATT-Ed

Well, everyone alive are tomorrows dead men. I am not offended

DanHolohan

@EBEBRATT-Ed, well said.  

LS123

@EBEBRATT-Ed, @DanHolohan ,,,well thats fine you two are entitle to you opinions... i suppose we had two different understandings and the word being used has a different connotation..... i will go read something more useful on HH forum now..... Best!

DanHolohan

I’m happy to explain the term to you privately and tell all about how it came to be if you’re interested. It’s a good story that goes back a long way. It has a lot to do with how this site came to be.  If you’re not interested, no worries. PM me. 

neilc

LS,
here, it's an honor to live and learn with the deadmen,
don't go havin a midlife terror over this

LS123

thank u @DanHolohan , would appreciate that very much, will PM you tomorrow. Best!
thank u @neilc , LOL - I had my midlife terrors when I was in my mid 20s... been there and done that...now I am a retired guy

DanHolohan

Thanks. Looking forward to chatting with you. 

LS123

thank u! me too.. hope you have a wonderful evening.
Best!

jhrost

My apologies for not appropriate use of the term. This sight is a great resource for all who want to learn, and the politeness and helpfulness of the people here is far above the norm for the internet . I dont' want to detract from that.

retiredguy

To all you guys that find things offensive let me say that you need to learn the word "patience". It took me many, many years to learn how to be patient. Try not to get irritated by a word or an opinion of someone else, they do have their opinion and so do you. At some point we will all be "the dead men" or maybe "men from yesterday" or "men that came before us". I believe that everyone on this site loves the jobs they did or still do or they would not be trying to explain things to those who want to learn. The guys on this site have considerable knowledge of all things "heating" and will always be happy to share there knowledge. So please don't write that, "that offends me", that is nothing we need to hear. I hope that no one takes offense to this comment since it is just my opinion.

LS123

@jhrost ...no need to apologize, as mentioned I had a different understanding and interpretation. I hope to learn and understand better the title, and referring to such, later today from Dan. And continue to be an active member.

Also, I thank all the members who engage in this forum either by asking questions, or those who respond to the questions and making HH site to be valuable resource.

An example would be: if someone ask me do you like apple, I jump back and say no... because I have minor allergic reaction to eating fresh apples... then again what breed of apples one would be referring to?
If one ask me if I like apple pie... I will jump up and down... will ask that person where is the apple pie? ....
Interpretations, understandings are mainly Socio-Psychological.

@retiredguy , u have a good point... same way you took a position to my post and express yourself, I did the same. Absolutely agree with you about patience. My comments were not intended to be interpreted as irritated form, or mid-life terror. Some words have many connotations.

I will focus on the valuable information that were shared by many members, because @jhrost 's this post.

I suppose ... I can re-emphasize, that I had a misunderstanding, interpreted differently than what was intended. I did not anticipate my interpretations as a distraction to the forum (on this discussion)

Thank you all for your responses ( not reactions) to my post. I hope we can continue this discussion further based on @jhrost post.

I look forward to learning as much as I can and also ask as many questions to learn more.

Thank you and best!

Kickstand55

My thermostat is telling me I'm an old Bat. No, wait...it says... lo bat. Oh. Hmmm. Should have my spectacles on.
Not a Dead Man yet as of this writing.

LS123

@Kickstand55 .. is you Tstat telling you what type of a bat? because there are nearly 45+ types of bats world wide

Kickstand55

LS123,
I was quite unaware of that. Now I am.

LS123

@Kickstand55