Rads vent for a really long time
The main has a gorton 1 (which was previously installed, but I put a new one in anyway)
It's a classic cape cod house with 7 radiators total. (There's a stairway the splits two upstairs bedrooms) The boiler is in the basement on one side of the house. There's one main and it's a one pipe system.
My question is: what is causing some of my radiators to vent for so long, so loudly?
Also probably worth mentioning is that my low water cutoff has an intermittent test function that cuts the burner off for about a minute every once in a while and then starts it back up. This seems to make the rads vent all over again too.
Comments
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The radiators are going to vent air as long as the boiler is running and the radiator has not filled to the point of steam closing the vent. If it is venting noisily then they may just be venting too fast. IF you just have a single Gorton #1 on the main vent I would suggest first adding your old (presumably good and functioning) Gorton #1 on an antler so you have the two both venting the main. This may reduce some of the total time the radiators are venting. The other thing to try would be to slow down the venting at the radiators.1
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A Gorton #1 is a pretty small main vent, so I would add a #2.
Every time the LWCO shuts the burner down, air will rush back into the system to relieve the vacuum. When it fires back up again, that air needs to be pushed out. With this shorter cycling, the main venting becomes even more important, but when completed will yield shorter burn times.
Don’t follow the Gorton advice, but instead start with generous main venting, and small radiator vents. After a while, any slow rads might need increased venting. A low pressure gauge, (0-3 psi), will aid in monitoring, and keeping the back pressure low (under 2 ounces) in the venting phase.—NBC0 -
Even though the burner is off for 90 seconds ( CG400-1090) the boiler remains pretty hot and can continue to generate steam at a slower rate. I am not sure the system would go from pressure to vacuum in that time span. I like the intermittent level test because it reduces any overpressure, thus minimizing the number of times the pressuretrol would short cycle the boiler.
Has anyone actually measured whether it really happens?0 -
My only observation on pressure drop when a boiler shuts off is based on watching what happens to Cedric when he goes off on pressure (7 ounces) -- which rarely happens. When he goes off, the post purge kicks in -- 15 seconds. By that time the system is down to just a smidge over 0 -- less than 1 ounce. Then there is the pre-purge, another 15 seconds -- and by that time the system pressure is flat zero. It never goes to vacuum, as the vent never closes -- never closes on heating, either, for that matter. Now admittedly that's not one pipe -- it's a big vapour system.
On a one pipe system, the cycling on pressure or on the Cyclegard contraption actually may have an advantage, in that it lets the vents regain control of the heating rate of the radiators. There's been some discussion about that...
If the OP's vents are noisy, though, the very first thing I would look at is main venting -- as @nicholas bonham-carter mentioned -- and cutout pressure. There may not be enough main venting to keep the initial fill pressure low enough (certainly not over a pound -- better half a pound or less at the boiler) and the cutout pressure may be too high anyway.Br. Jamie, osb
Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England0 -
I've never seen the pressure at the boiler over .5 psi
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is the gage after the pigtail with the Ptrol(#1)?
or separate(#2)?
if #1, and the pigtail is clogged, the gage wouldn't display correct pressure any better than the Ptrol would see it,
what do you have for main venting?
pictures , , ,known to beat dead horses0 -
I should have mentioned above in my post about the intermittent level test function that I was assuming an oversize boiler, which seems to be a common situation.0
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Pics attached of pigtail and gorton #1 main vent setup0
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@Danny Scully here's a few more pics. Do you think the vent is in the wrong location? Where is it supposed to go?0
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The main vent is supposed to go at the end of the main near the last radiator takeoff. Yours is on the drip for the counter flow main and is most likely closing right after the boiler starts producing steam.
Also, how long and what diameter is your main? Unless it's really short, that vent may not be enough.1 -
@KC_Jones welp. I just found a vent at the end of the main buried under insulation. Looks like a gorton.
My main is 2" and about 31' long. Just measured.
This buried gorton looks horrible. Would I be okay with a gorton 1 over there? Is that enough venting? And what's the point of the one by the wet return then?0 -
Since you have the Gorton #1 try that. You can time how long it takes steam to get there on a call for heat, it will probably be fine. Like around a couple minutes after steam production starts
NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el0 -
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I would put a Gorton 2 at the end of main location, since your LWCO is cycling the burner; and yes, dial down the pressuretrol, and verify with a proper low pressure gauge.--NBC0
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Should I keep that brand new gorton 1 at the wet return or is it not even necessary?
Thanks for all the replies guys. This has been very helpful.0 -
The Gorton #1 you have there is not benefitting you and could be slightly hurting you. I'd pull it and plug the hole.1
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@KC_Jones Then I'll plug it and move the brand new gorton 1 to the end of the main and see how it does...
If I'm still noticing weird venting at the radiators I guess I'll have to bite the bullet and pay $100 for a gorton 2 :-)
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@op Yes. Those are the standard settings for low pressure steam heat.
When you adjust the cut-in, be careful that you don’t go too low and cause the mechanism to separate.
Your existing 0 to 30 pound gauge may not register any pressure once you have done this. They are notoriously inaccurate at low readings.
Another common problem is for the pigtail between the boiler and the pressuretrol to clog up, causing the pressuretrol and/or gauge not to sense the actual pressure. It can be removed and cleaned out.—
Bburd1 -
As @Danny Scully and others have mentioned the vent near the boiler is totally useless. Plug it and add vents to the end of the mains.
I think you will notice a big improvement1 -
Got it. Adjusting now, and I will check for clogs. Any gauge with a smaller maximum on the psi will do?
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Regarding a low pressure gauge, most people here use 0 to 3 or 0 to 5 pounds. This must be installed in addition to the code required 30 pound gauge.
Good practice is to install a ball valve below the gauge, so it can be isolated when not in use. This guards against ruining the gauge should there be an overpressure incident.—
Bburd0 -
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SteamingatMohawk said:Even though the burner is off for 90 seconds ( CG400-1090) the boiler remains pretty hot and can continue to generate steam at a slower rate. I am not sure the system would go from pressure to vacuum in that time span. I like the intermittent level test because it reduces any overpressure, thus minimizing the number of times the pressuretrol would short cycle the boiler. Has anyone actually measured whether it really happens?
https://youtu.be/yxKhRCJrtVU
NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el0 -
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@ethicalpaul Good video. I wonder if the same would happen with a starting pressure higher than 0.6 inches of water.1
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Yours does that right?
NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el0 -
@ethicalpaul I don't have a low pressure gauge permanently installed, so I could not see pressure turning to vacuum. Maybe I'll spring for a Magnehelic just to find out.
Which pressure-vacuum model would you recommend?0 -
I have a more typical 0-3psi gauge on my boiler, those are good. If you are interested in vacuum, then look for a -3 to 0 to 3 type where the gauge rests at 0 in the middle of the range.
I also have several Magnehelic that I got from ebay. If you can find a -20 to 0 to 20 or a -50 to 0 to 50 those are good. Keep in mind there are about 27 inches of water column per psi so that last one would display about -2psi to +2psi.
Several of mine will collect water in them over time unless I put them after a pigtail even though it seems like they shouldn't due to the cushion of air in the supply tube but :shrug:
Here is an ebay search you can use. Aim for $20-$30 with reasonable shipping...they come up eventually: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=dwyer+magnehelic&_fcid=1&_sop=12&_stpos=07009&_pgn=4NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el0 -
@ethicalpaul Thanks. How confident are you that they will work, since, at that price, they have to be used? I don't mind saving a few bucks, but reliability and condition mean a lot to me.0
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I’ve bought about 6 over some months and they all work. They are very well made. If nervous, get one that has a return policy. They can be damaged by over pressure but I haven’t seen an occurrence
NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el0 -
Update - installed a gorton 2 on my main.
One of my radiator vents (brand new gorton 6) is getting a bit of water stuck in it, causing it to randomly vent extremely loud. It only happens to this one, all the rest in my house I haven't noticed.
Maybe a faulty vent?? Pitch is good, slanted down towards the supply.0 -
@theONEendONLY hey there, happy new year. Following up here - did the G2 stop the rads from venting long and slow?0
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A couple of mine do this. I attribute it to being in a cold location, so condensation forms while the moist air is venting through a cold vent. When it gets on my nerves I take the vent off and shake the water out of it and it'll be fine until the water builds up again.theONEendONLY said:One of my radiator vents (brand new gorton 6) is getting a bit of water stuck in it, causing it to randomly vent extremely loud. It only happens to this one, all the rest in my house I haven't noticed.
Maybe a faulty vent?? Pitch is good, slanted down towards the supply.Just another DIYer | King of Prussia, PA
1983(?) Peerless G-561-W-S | 3" drop header, CG400-1090, VXT-240 -
da13ear said:@theONEendONLY hey there, happy new year. Following up here - did the G2 stop the rads from venting long and slow?0
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The varivalves are very aggressive vents. At their slowest they are faster than about half the other vents out there. At 50% they are about the fastest vent you can get and at full setting they are double the speed of a Gorton #1 main vent. They don't offer any "real" control.theONEendONLY said:da13ear said:@theONEendONLY hey there, happy new year. Following up here - did the G2 stop the rads from venting long and slow?
Unfortunately no. I changed a few of my g6's to varivalves so I could play with the vent speed a little bit, slowing them down helped somewhat but it's still not great1
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