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Oil Tank Failed After Fill - Need Help/Advice

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TheGunPlumber
TheGunPlumber Member Posts: 2
edited March 2021 in Oil Heating
Thanks in advance for reading and any help. 

We have owned our home for 8 years. It was built in 2001, with oil heat. Our tank is in the basement, and measures 74x46”, which I gather is a 550 gallon capacity. The fill and vent pipes come up next to the house, in a small concrete well. The fill pipe is 2.5” and the vent pipe is 2” (OD). 

Our tank is refilled on average 2x/year. It is standard practice that we have to wipe off the siding and sometimes rinse off the concrete walk adjacent to the fill pipes after a fill. The wife called the oil company after the first or second fill, and was told that it was normal to have the vent pipe burp after a fill. We thought this was more than a “burp”, but came to accept it as normal. 

Our latest fill was early last week, and we started smelling diesel almost right away.  It took a couple days to actually find a problem, though, when the smell got really strong and we found about a quart of fuel had seeped from the bottom of the tank. 

The oil company came and pumped the oil out the following morning. Their receipt shows that they pumped 555 gallons out of the tank.  When they removed the access cap, the tank was full right up to the top. Another few gallons would have had it spilling on the floor.  One of the guys said the oil driver mentioned getting “sprayed on one of his calls.  This must have been it.”

I keep a tracker that shows we would have used something like 6-7 gallons during that time, there are a few gallons of oil/sludge left in the tank (maybe 3-4?), and about 1-2 gallons seeped out. That puts the fill at about 565 gallons. 

I’ve heard the whistle during fills, though I didn’t know what it was at the time. I’ve since did some reading (a lot on this site- thanks for that) and understand what that was. I pointed a 18v leaf blower into the fill pipe of the now empty tank and the whistle clearly works. In measuring my tank, I’ve noticed that both ends have a slight bulge- about 3/4” or so on one side, and about 1 1/4” on the other. 

I had resigned myself to needing to pay to dispose of and get a replacement tank, but the more I dig into this, the more I suspect that the delivery driver pressurized and compromised my tank. 

In my initial discussion, I brought this up with the GM of the company, and she said that she’s never heard of anything like that happening, and that the driver couldn’t have harmed my tank since he only has access to fill from the outside. 

Am I off base here?  Am I just getting bad internet knowledge, or is it possible for a delivery driver to bulge/break a tank by overfilling it from the outside?

Comments

  • MaxMercy
    MaxMercy Member Posts: 514
    edited March 2021
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    Not a pro, but it seems to me that if it was overfilled (that happened to me), the excess oil would go out the vent without building up much pressure, at least not enough to damage a welded steel tank like that.

    I got an overfill once, and it was noticed by the horrible smell of fuel oil in the basement. It leaked out of the sight glass, probably 2 gallons worth I'd guess.
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 6,505
    edited March 2021
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    Round tank? Your vent should have the same or more capacity than the fill, by code. Yours did not.
    If the tank was piped properly, and the whistle was working, there should have never been any type of spill. I suspect either the whistle wasn't working, and the driver was listening and trying to stop the fill before it spilled, and/or the vent was clogged/partially clogged. I also figure with a 550 tank the driver was delivering on high speed. Might have only given him a second or two to stop flow. High speed and undersized venting could bulge a tank, more so than over filling. And undersized could simply mean partially clogged.
    Either way, that should've been reported by the driver and corrected after the first fill. Most oil companies are required to check the tank before the first fill by their insurance companies.
    550g tank should've had a 2" vent, knowing any driver would most likely be tempted to deliver on high speed.
    As far as gallons, if the tank was completely filled, and the piping was also filled, sounds about right.
    But everything else sounds wrong. The oil company is bs'ing you. I wouldn't let them install the new tank, nor give them any more business. They're lucky it wasn't a major spill. They may have been on the hook for the liability.
    Leaf blower tells you nothing much about how the whistle was working during delivery, unless you were able to match the exact pressure of the delivery truck. Many of the older whistles work better on low speed than high speed.
    Got any pictures?

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

    bucksnort
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 16,899
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    When the tank is replaced, get a double-wall tank as made by Roth, Granby and others. The second wall contains any leakage from the main tank wall.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,624
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    @TheGunPlumber

    I have seen this exact thing happen with an inside 275 gallon tank. The tank was 40-50 years old but age had nothing to do with it. What happened was it had an old style vent cap without a stop inside it. The cap had been pushed down on the pipe. It allowed the pipe to vent air ok until the tank was overfilled. What happened was the tank was already filled. A driver from another oil company went to the wrong house and started filling an already full tank. Trucks can pump 100psi hydrostatic pressure bulged the tank.


    I would not let the oil company off the hook for this yet. They have insurance to cover this and are at least partially libel @STEVEusaPA is correct about the fill and vent being the same size pipe although for years Massachusetts allowed 2" fills and 1 1/4 vents with no issues. In you case having the fill larger than the vent didn't work out so well.


    In your case I would check tthe vent cap some have screens in them that could be plugged. You already checked the whistle. The vent pipe should be low on the tank end and pitch up to the outside.

    If the oil company had trouble filling this and the vent burped they should have told you that so the problem could be investigated
  • TheGunPlumber
    TheGunPlumber Member Posts: 2
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    Here is a picture of the tank, as requested. The vent pipe is the smaller diameter one on the left.  I don’t know if these pipes are designated by ID or OD, but the vent pipe is about 2” OD, the fill 2.5” OD.  


    Here is what the fill site looks like:

    I’m not sure where I’d be looking for a screen.  I assume it would be under the mushroom on top of the pipe. Both the vent and fill tops are labeled “OEM New Haven 2”” but the part directly under the vent cap looks to be an adaptor. 

    The oil company that fills the tank has had the account since the house was built. When we bought the house, they had to come in to measure the level in the tank so we could pay the previous owner for it. Since they already knew the system, we kept them on. 
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 6,505
    edited March 2021
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    Are you sure you have a vent alarm whistle on your tank? I don't see one.
    Unless you signed off on getting one, all the liability should fall on them. Even if you did sign off, they are the professionals, they should've remedied that and/or refused to fill it.
    You basically had a driver listening for air bubbles (as it's overfilling) and trying to shut it off before it spills out the vent. You're lucky it wasn't a catastrophic mess.

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

    bucksnort
  • TheGunPlumber
    TheGunPlumber Member Posts: 2
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    Are you sure you have a vent alarm whistle on your tank? I don't see one. Unless you signed off on getting one, all the liability should fall on them. Even if you did sign off, they are the professionals, they should've remedied that and/or refused to fill it. You basically had a driver listening for air bubbles (as it's overfilling) and trying to shut it off before it spills out the vent. You're lucky it wasn't a catastrophic mess.
    Thanks for all of your insights. 

    I am nearly certain that I have a whistle. When I put the leaf blower to it, it made a burbling sound like those water-filled bird whistles kids play with. When it was being filled, it sounds like that but a lot faster frequency. 

    I removed the emergency vent cap, and fed a plastic garden stake in so that I could feel around parallel to the top of the tank. I definitely felt a small diameter apparatus (maybe 1/2” or so) that sticks down from the vent pipe by about 4 or 5 inches. 
  • TheGunPlumber
    TheGunPlumber Member Posts: 2
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    I have since had a follow up discussion with the oil company. After my initial discussion, the GM spoke with the owner and he offered to install the new tank at cost, no labor.  They’re also giving me an estimate to put in a heat-pump or dual-fuel so I can use oil as a backup. I am going to wait until after the estimate to make a decision on whether to accept this or not. 

    I also asked to speak with the owner, and am waiting on his call. 

    What had me wanting to talk this through with the owner is that the GM seems to know about as much as I did about this tank a week ago. 

    She told me that my tank wouldn’t have a whistle, that those were for buried tanks- until I explained having heard and felt it. Then she told me that the whistle was “up in the pipe” so that it didn’t stop sounding until it filled to the top of the vent pipe. Then she told me that a 550 gallon tank should be filled right up to 550 gallons- no air space needed.

    She also told me (which I expected) that they installed the tank and have filled it every year since it was installed. 

    Both ends of the vent pipe have that adaptor down a size from 2”, so, if there is an issue with the vent pipe being smaller diameter than the fill pipe, they installed it that way. 
  • Big Ed_4
    Big Ed_4 Member Posts: 2,806
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    Top feed is the problem

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

  • TheGunPlumber
    TheGunPlumber Member Posts: 2
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    Big Ed_4 said:
    Top feed is the problem
    What does that mean?
    I mean, I can guess what top feed means, but why is that the problem?  It seems like most of the oil tank pics I’ve seen are filled from the top. 
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 6,505
    edited March 2021
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    "She told me that my tank wouldn’t have a whistle, that those were for buried tanks- until I explained having heard and felt it. Then she told me that the whistle was “up in the pipe” so that it didn’t stop sounding until it filled to the top of the vent pipe. Then she told me that a 550 gallon tank should be filled right up to 550 gallons- no air space needed."
    This is complete bullsh!#, and her trying to cover her butt.

    Signalling device-required by code. It's not installed inline, unless it's buried somewhere. The whistling you may hear is air moving over trapped oil. Tell her they WILL install a proper signalling device.

    Tanks should never be filled right up to the top. They are meant to have room for expansion, also by code.
    Tell her you expect the tank to be installed to the proper code in effect for your jurisdiction, with the proper sized supply and vent pipes (steel, no copper), swing joints, & firomatic valve at the tank.

    And you want a permit pulled and you want your AHJ to inspect and approve the installation.
    Point her to this thread and invite her to come on and spew her nonsense. But have her grab a copy of NFPA 31 first.

    Edit: "Top Feed", @Big Ed_4 meant your oil line to the burner is fed from the top of the tank.
    You may want to put in the double wall tanks, even just a 330g, based on your usage, rather than another single wall steel tank. But based on what I've seen and read, your company would most likely botch that too.

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

    TheGunPlumber
  • bucksnort
    bucksnort Member Posts: 167
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    Maybe the fueler was on his phone or was jamming his IPods. Maybe it was a defective tank. They are replacing the tank so there.
    TheGunPlumber
  • Big Ed_4
    Big Ed_4 Member Posts: 2,806
    edited March 2021
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    The problem with top feed water will collect below suction line . Between the water and oil ,algae will live . The algae eats the oil and poops out sludge . The algae can't digest the sulfur in the oil and the sludge is sulfuric acid base and will eat out the tank. Pitch the new tank 1/4" pitch . 13 'legs far side bottom feed tank 12" valve side . Add a canister type filter at the valve to collect any water . The tank would last for ever in a dry environment ... It is so simple .... I was first taught the wrong way too .

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

    SuperTechTheGunPlumber
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,624
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    @TheGunPlumber

    I agree with @STEVEusaPA

    For the amount of oil you burn I would just have them put in a 275 or 330 gallon tank

    The vent and fill pipes are required by code to be the same diameter. They can be 1 1/4, 1 1/2 or 2"

    I see no whistle installed. The whistle gets put directly on the tank and sticks down into the tank.


    It serves 2 important things. It whistles loudly when the tank is filled. The whistle noise will shut off when the oil level rises signaling to the driver that the tank is almost full so he knows to stop filling. If done correctly it will leave some air space in the top of the tank

    Think of this. You fill the tank with cold oil from the truck. The tank warms up in the basement and the oil expands, where does that oil go? The tank can overflow if air space is not left in the tank.


    The person that told you the tank can be filled 100% is totally wrong

    When a 275 is filled the gauge will read about 7/8 full

    And @STEVEusaPA is right you need a firomatic valve at the tank.

    Where are you located ? Out in the boon docks? Your oil company doesn't seem up to snuff
    TheGunPlumber
  • TheGunPlumber
    TheGunPlumber Member Posts: 2
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    Thanks, all, for the comments.  

    I located in central NC, where a heat pump seems to be the norm, and plenty adequate 99% of the time. My area is very rural, so it’s not a high-volume area by any means. The receipt records show that we use somewhere around 180-220 gallons per year.

    If I end up with a heat pump, and oil as my backup, my ideal situation would be an outdoor double-wall tank of about 100-150 gallons, so I could fuel my tractor as well, and keep it “topped up” myself with 5 gallon cans. 

    I think what I want to ask, and seems fair to me, is that they remove the old tank and provide the new one at no charge, and they install the heat pump at their cost. 

    I feel that they caused this issue, so the tank should be on them, and the good deal on the heat pump would make up for stinking our house up, leaving me without heat for (at least) a week in February, and chewing up the 3-4 days that the cleanup, arguing with them, estimates and installation will end up taking. 

    Am I being unreasonable?
  • TheGunPlumber
    TheGunPlumber Member Posts: 2
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    Big Ed_4 said:
    The problem with top feed water will collect below suction line . Between the water and oil ,algae will live . The algae eats the oil and poops out sludge . The algae can't digest the sulfur in the oil and the sludge is sulfuric acid base and will eat out the tank. Pitch the new tank 1/4" pitch . 13 'legs far side bottom feed tank 12" valve side . Add a canister type filter at the valve to collect any water . The tank would last for ever in a dry environment ... It is so simple .... I was first taught the wrong way too .
    Thanks. 
    A lot there that is over my head, but I’m going to re-read that and try to understand it ahead of my next discussion with them. 

    My feeder inlet is/was about 10” above the bottom, if I recall correctly. 

    It stuck me how little sludge there was in the tank. I guess I didn’t know what to expect, but pictures on line had me thinking it would be several inches in the bottom. Right now, there is a splattering of what looks like chicken fat, with pools of red diesel a standing on it. It’s maybe an inch thick- maybe 5 gallons total. 
  • Big Ed_4
    Big Ed_4 Member Posts: 2,806
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    I would with your low usage just install a 275 gallon tank . The federal Government allows the oil companies to heat the crude oil on higher than previous allowed temperatures to subtract more of the better grade oils . The issue to be concern , fuel oil today will start breaking down in 6 months . So don't stock pile it ....

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

  • TheGunPlumber
    TheGunPlumber Member Posts: 2
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    "She told me that my tank wouldn’t have a whistle, that those were for buried tanks- until I explained having heard and felt it. Then she told me that the whistle was “up in the pipe” so that it didn’t stop sounding until it filled to the top of the vent pipe. Then she told me that a 550 gallon tank should be filled right up to 550 gallons- no air space needed." This is complete bullsh!#, and her trying to cover her butt. Signalling device-required by code. It's not installed inline, unless it's buried somewhere. The whistling you may hear is air moving over trapped oil. Tell her they WILL install a proper signalling device. Tanks should never be filled right up to the top. They are meant to have room for expansion, also by code. Tell her you expect the tank to be installed to the proper code in effect for your jurisdiction, with the proper sized supply and vent pipes (steel, no copper), swing joints, & firomatic valve at the tank. And you want a permit pulled and you want your AHJ to inspect and approve the installation. Point her to this thread and invite her to come on and spew her nonsense. But have her grab a copy of NFPA 31 first. Edit: "Top Feed", @Big Ed_4 meant your oil line to the burner is fed from the top of the tank. You may want to put in the double wall tanks, even just a 330g, based on your usage, rather than another single wall steel tank. But based on what I've seen and read, your company would most likely botch that too.
    @TheGunPlumber I agree with @STEVEusaPA For the amount of oil you burn I would just have them put in a 275 or 330 gallon tank The vent and fill pipes are required by code to be the same diameter. They can be 1 1/4, 1 1/2 or 2" I see no whistle installed. The whistle gets put directly on the tank and sticks down into the tank. It serves 2 important things. It whistles loudly when the tank is filled. The whistle noise will shut off when the oil level rises signaling to the driver that the tank is almost full so he knows to stop filling. If done correctly it will leave some air space in the top of the tank Think of this. You fill the tank with cold oil from the truck. The tank warms up in the basement and the oil expands, where does that oil go? The tank can overflow if air space is not left in the tank. The person that told you the tank can be filled 100% is totally wrong When a 275 is filled the gauge will read about 7/8 full And @STEVEusaPA is right you need a firomatic valve at the tank. Where are you located ? Out in the boon docks? Your oil company doesn't seem up to snuff
    I read through the NFPA 31 and found where the vent was required to be at least as big as the largest fill connection, and, if it’s being filled by a tight connection, it has to be larger than the pump outlet.

    Would it be reasonable to assume that the fill is done by a “tight connection”?  I’m assuming that it is a clamp on connection of some sort.  Or do they just stick a nozzle in the fill tube?

    Also, is there something that I can reference on how a tank should be filled?  Anything I can show them that dictates that a tank shouldn’t be filled all the way and what can happen if it is?


  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,624
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    @TheGunPlumber

    I am sure there is something in NFPA 31 about air space in the tank and the whistle. I will look. Do you know how old the house is or when the tank was installed??

    Yes, I think you are asking for too much. The tank was installed years ago. The fill and vent size and lack of a whistle that's on the person that inspected the installation.

    The oil company should have reported the difficulty in filling the tank and lack of whistle.

    They owe you an installed tank = to what you now have, not an outside tank.they don't owe you a heat pump .JMHO
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 8,099
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    If you want to get your insurance company involved (you may not) there are provisions in some Homeowners' insurance policies that provide for the cleanup and odor abatement. You will want to check that out first before you open a door you can't close. As far as the oil company is concerned, It appears that they are at fault for the tank problem and all associated therein. You may be able to have an independent insurance adjuster look it over before you actually file a claim. They will be able to get you all you deserve from the oil company's insurance co.

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,624
    edited March 2021
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    NFPA 31

    8.5.1 Minimum fill size 1 1/4"

    7.2.5.1 Minimum vent size 1 1/4"

    7.5.8 Fusable (firomatic valve)

    7.5.10 Tank gauge

    8.10.3 Whistle

    It's been understood that the fill and vent must be the same size, however I couldn't find this in the code. Maybe I missed it


    And who knows if North Carolina has even adopted NFPA 31 as there code
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 8,099
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    I found this on the NFPA website in the Q&A section

    There is confusion among oil tank installers regarding the size of the tank vent. Is
    the minimum nominal pipe diameter 1¼ in. diameter or 2 in.?


    Subsection 7.2.5 governs vents for fuel oil storage tanks installed inside a building.
    In the 1997 edition of NFPA 31, the nominal vent size for such tanks was increased
    from 1¼ in. to 2 in. This change was based on several incidents involving tank failure
    that appeared to be related to overpressure of the tank during filling at high flow
    rates. After publication of the 1997 edition, problems began to be encountered in
    the field, particularly with regard to tank replacements: building officials were
    mandating replacement of the 1¼ in. vent pipe of existing installations.
    Since that time, full‐scale testing has shown that the 1¼ in. vent is adequate for
    tank capacities up to 660 gallons, even with the vent whistle installed. The
    Technical Committee on Liquid Fuel Burning Equipment agreed to return to the 1¼
    in. minimum vent size based on these tests. This has considerably eased problems
    related to retrofits.


    So if the tank was installed before the 1997 edition was in use, then a 1-1/4 inch vent is allowed. If the tank was installed after the 1997 edition was in use then a 2" vent is required. Only on retrofit (Not New Construction) of old tank systems are you able to use less than 2" vent for an indoor residential oil tank

    I believe your tank falls in the minimum 2" vent category.

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,624
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    @EdTheHeaterMan

    I have a 2011 copy. For indoor tanks less than 660 gallons it says minimum 1 1/4 vent and minimum 1 1/4 fill

    Those are both minimum sizes. It is kind of understood that the fill and vent should be the same size as I was told the fill shouldn't be larger than the vent to prevent over pressurizing.

    I could find nothing in the code about the size relationship between the fill and vent. Did you see that??


    Or maybe their isn't one. Back when Mass, had their own oil burner code it was 2" fill and 1 1/4 vent for years (although most used 1 1/2 fills and the Fire Dept that inspected didn't know the difference)
  • MaxMercy
    MaxMercy Member Posts: 514
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    Would it be reasonable to assume that the fill is done by a “tight connection”?  I’m assuming that it is a clamp on connection of some sort.  Or do they just stick a nozzle in the fill tube?

    Yes, the fill connection is done by a nozzle that threads onto your fill pipe. I assume it's done this way to ensure the escaping air is routed through the whistle/vent and not back out the fill pipe.

  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,624
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    @MaxMercy

    We haven't seen the fill pipe could be a Scully adapter or not
    MaxMercy
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 6,505
    edited March 2021
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    Look a little closer. It appears to be just a flip top cover.
    Bottom line it's all wrong, from all sides-legal, practical, and safely.

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 8,099
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    As a former home heating oil delivery truck driver, I can tell you that the assumption is "Sealed". However, if the homeowner was not a regular customer or off-road diesel customer, or a farmer with a tank that was moveable, I personally would not take the time (or expense) to install the "SEALED Fast-Fill" fitting. I had a spout that would fit inside a 1-1/4 pipe. Mine had a tapered rubber ring to form a "manual pressure gasket" of sorts. But a rag wrapped around the spout fitting would do the same thing. The idea was for automatic delivery customers (with charge accounts). You could maximize your number of deliveries, and minimize the time per delivery with a reliable "Fast-Fill System"


    By installing the type or brand or brand of "Fast-Fill" fitting on your customer's tank, you can connect, pump and deliver oil faster with a gasketed-seal on the fill pipe.

    There was even an underground tank "Fast-Fill" device that we carried on the truck to have the vent alarm feature on underground tanks that were not equipped with vent alarms. You would insert the filler pipe then turn the whistle 180° and pull up.
    The whistle would stop at the top of the tank (actually 5" below the top) and the whistle would stop when the tank has sufficient air left to prevent expansion from cold delivered oil causing overflow after the oil warmed up in the tank.

    So filling a residential tank at about 80 GPM was safe as long as you did not overfill. Once you force all the air from inside the tank, then a reduced (1-1/4") vent pipe size in theory was large enough to allow the liquid oil to vent without Hydraulic pressure building up enough to cause a tank failure.

    I have personally delivered 286 gallons to a 275 basement tank. The whistle was still sounding when I thought that the delivery was taking a little too long. It turns out the vent was partially plugged with rust inside the vent pipe. There was a note on the ticket to "Slow Fill" this delivery, and I did not see the checkmark in the Slow Fill Box on the ticket.

    I hope this helps non-truckers to understand what is involved with the delivery process.

    Yours Truly,
    Mr.Ed





    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

    LS123SuperTech
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 8,099
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    @EBEBRATT-Ed This was the only reference to the 2" vent that I saw. I remember in NJ there were about 3 years where we needed to order 275 Gallon tanks with at least one 3" tapping for the vent, and we were installing 3" mushroom caps on them. What a fiasco that was. That was about the time the 1997 edition came out.

    Mr.Ed

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

    LS123
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 23,442
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    Fascinating, @EdTheHeaterMan -- why I frequent the Wall. Learn something new every day!
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    SuperTechLS123EdTheHeaterMan
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,624
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    @EdTheHeaterMan

    I used to get out on the delivery truck. But only for emergency's, run outs and when a driver was out sick.

    Most all the old 500 and 1000 gallon underground tanks in our area had no whistle so we used the "snorkel" which is what they called the fast fill
    LS123
  • TheGunPlumber
    TheGunPlumber Member Posts: 2
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    Thanks again for all of the input. 

    The owner of the company has since called me directly, and we’ve reached an agreeable outcome. 

    He stuck to the company line that overfilling would not have caused the tank to fail, but that seemed in the end more of an attempt to cover his position if I decided to go all pain-and-suffering lottery-winner on him.

    They’re taking the old tank out at no cost to me, and offered me an outdoor one at less than their cost. 

    I had included them in my estimates for the heat pump to replace my AC unit.  They were the highest of all the estimates I received, but they were quoting Lennox and Amana over Goodman, Bryant, and York, and were the most thorough in their analysis and estimate. The salesman got me thinking hard about going with a new propane furnace as well.

    The conversation with the owner took place after the estimate, and the owner said he would call the salesman and they would make me a deal on the furnace if I went with propane and stayed with them. At the end of the day, it looks like they’re giving me the heat pump and furnace at just above cost.  
  • bucksnort
    bucksnort Member Posts: 167
    edited March 2021
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    When my neighbor bought his house many years ago he went so far as to have the dirt tested from around the fill area. Maybe he thought it was a future Superfund site. Been around fuel oil for 40 years. Stuff stinks. I wouldn't want it splashed on the side of my house like you said.
    You sound like a reasonable person that came to good terms without threats, screaming and flailing arms. Good luck in whatever you do from here.
    TheGunPlumber
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,624
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    Propane is more $$$ than oil but especially in your location with the small amount of fuel you use that is probably a good choice
    TheGunPlumber
  • TheGunPlumber
    TheGunPlumber Member Posts: 2
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    I used about 200 gallons of oil per year, so that would probably translate into 240 gallons of LP, but, between the more efficient furnace, and it only being used as cold-temp backup, I’ll probably be below the price break level.

    The propane will be much more versatile, and we may put in a gas log setup eventually. Also, I’m going to have them put a connection out back for canning, brewing, my generator and a few work related things I currently do on 20# cylinders. Not to mention getting the indoor space back from that oil tank. 

    I think I’ll come out ahead in the end. Thanks, again, for all the advice. 
  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 4,888
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    I used about 200 gallons of oil per year, so that would probably translate into 240 gallons of LP, but, between the more efficient furnace, and it only being used as cold-temp backup, I’ll probably be below the price break level.

    The propane will be much more versatile, and we may put in a gas log setup eventually. Also, I’m going to have them put a connection out back for canning, brewing, my generator and a few work related things I currently do on 20# cylinders. Not to mention getting the indoor space back from that oil tank. 


    I think I’ll come out ahead in the end. Thanks, again, for all the advice. 
    Run the actual #'s
    https://coalpail.com/fuel-comparison-calculator-home-heating
  • TAG
    TAG Member Posts: 755
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    I always switch out to propane (seems every old house I buy has oil) .... I use a lot more than 200 gallons. The service on the oil equipment is a pain. Too bad you can't make this all work before he does the oil tank .... roll it all into a new propane and heat pump.

    Amana is just the high end Goodman -- nothing wrong with the equipment. Bryant was always the brand that the oil companies sold (It's Carrier). I like Carrier ..... no experience with Lenox. Goodman/ AMANA has a very good warranty and I think they are the only ones that sell an extend warranty that they back internally. Carrier did at one time -- now they are third party coverage
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,624
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    Most all furnaces are ....JUNK

    Thermopride is good on oil or gas
    SuperTech
  • TheGunPlumber
    TheGunPlumber Member Posts: 2
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    Most all furnaces are ....JUNK Thermopride is good on oil or gas
    Thermopride is what I have now, both the furnace and AC. 
  • SuperTech
    SuperTech Member Posts: 2,186
    edited March 2021
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    Most all furnaces are ....JUNK Thermopride is good on oil or gas
    Thermopride is what I have now, both the furnace and AC. 
    Then I can assure you that you will be very disappointed with any other furnace. Amana, Carrier/Bryant,  Lennox, nothing compares to the quality and longevity that an oil fired Thermopride offers. I can't comment on gas Thermoprides,  but the oil models are the highest quality forced air furnace I have seen.  If you have service issues its either your oil tank or oil quality or your technician, or maybe a poor installation.  Even still that furnace will outlast all others. 
    For the record I would still rather have a boiler. 
    EBEBRATT-Ed