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Stand by steam rad, although got a little burn have many questions, slow or fast where should it be

LS123
LS123 Member Posts: 456
hello All,
bit info first, then some questions?
- boiler rocks, so do the rads, and whole steam system.
- Some rads have covers, but temp removed them when we has really cold days week or so ago.
- This rad is well sized, also 4 plus feet long.
- Few days ago, I accidentally lean on this rad ( probably 20 some inches tall)
- My skin touched the rad, jumped back, it tun out to be a blister and something else subsequently

Questions:
Thank you!
@LS123

Comments

  • LS123
    LS123 Member Posts: 456
    ok... questions....

    1. should i assume that steam rads would get as hot as steam? 212 F -- not assuming this time
    2. Is it better for the boiler to produce steam faster? why? why not?
    3. Is it better for the boiler to produce steam slower? why? why not?

    my boiler 70 years old, oil burner has 0.85 gph nozzle. i understand over firing can produce wet steam, water hammering, increase velocity inside supply pipes and can lead to long term stress and damage the system...

    Could you tell me more my question?

    Thank u all?
    Thank you!
    @LS123
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 12,010
    If it's heating the house leave the nozzle alone. I can't imagine a steam boiler that would be fired under .85.

    The radiator will be close to 212 deg if it's been heating a while how much less than 212? I don't know, Measure it

    I grew up in the first two houses I lived in had steam heat. I learned not to touch it
    CanuckerLS123
  • LS123
    LS123 Member Posts: 456
    good morning @EBEBRATT-Ed ,

    yes, the oil burner nozzle but have been selected to be the correct size to be 0.85 gpm, over the years, bust be at least from mid 2000. No plans to change it.

    in about 20 or 30 minutes on average cold day. almost 6 rads on both top and second floor gets super hot. the one in the picture is one of the last to get fully heated. A pro can fix the pipes on it, and thinking putting a gorton # installed during off heating season. i had to get it done as is for now, because for temp med reason.

    there seems to be affordable infrared hand held devices available on line, not getting one. I know the heaters get hot enough to burn skin. Will be putting back the decorative covers next week.

    while i was testing the heaters connection to make sure no steam is escaping, accidentally, my skin came in contact.... thus it let me to wonder again and try to learn more about my steam heat and post this
    discussion

    Although no plans to change 0.85 gph... I would still like to earn about under and over fired oil burners impact on steam heating systems... definitely will learn a lot from @DanHolohan books, staring with "The Lost Art of Steam Heating" and "We Got Steam Heat! : A Homeower's Guide to Peaceful Coexistence"

    Thank you everyone and best regards!
    Thank you!
    @LS123
  • LS123
    LS123 Member Posts: 456
    @My570 , Good morning!,
    Good one! :D
    I could net find number 4... myself
    a) What was the comfort level of the house with the radiators Free of their .... containment?
    - avg 65 most days, 72 few day a month.

    b) Better distribution of heat ?
    -Absolutely, although one pic attached below is the last to get super hot. it gets steam and i can feel the sections closer to steam intake pipe getting hot

    c) shorter run time ? better overall feel ?
    - yes and yes

    * i lost my little buddy / pal, not much of heater, but one of my best friends... perhaps this summer will be ready for a puppy

    "{Dan has written about these many times and their initial purposes ... I still have some and hate them but let me try explaining why they should be removed and bamm"

    I am assuming above quote is relater to intention of humor... if not i would be respectfully disagree... I am more confident that quote is humor related to everyone who has a loving pet that try to sleep next to the people they love... its wonderful experience.

    First I like reading books, secondly - I am confident every book by @DanHolohan is Totally worthwhile reading, especially for someone like I. That love to learn about steam systems of past, present, and any in future.
    Thank you kindly @My570

    @Erin Holohan Haskell , could you please delete my post above. it did not copy the quote, i intended to have. thank you!
    Thank you!
    @LS123
    My570
  • Erin Holohan Haskell
    Erin Holohan Haskell Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 1,864
    @LS123, got it. Thanks.
    President
    HeatingHelp.com
    LS123
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 3,739
    The radiators get what I call "steam hot". It usually seems to be like 190-195. The steam is inside the radiator and the radiator is...radiating so the outside is cooler than the interior.

    It depends what part of your body touches it. Your fingers can touch it for maybe up to a second or so before any real pain. I've never held a hot radiator longer than that to see what damage might occur there.

    Softer parts like the underside of your forearm can get more of a burn quicker. So don't touch with those parts.
    1 pipe Peerless 63-03L in Cedar Grove, NJ, coal > oil > NG
    LS123
  • LS123
    LS123 Member Posts: 456
    thank you at @ethicalpaul ,
    so honestly, after i put new connecting pipe on a heater, i increased the temp for very high for following.....
    1) that the rad i broke would will get the heat
    2) that i wanted to make sure there is no steam leaks on this rad by inlet valve where there was a steam leak when the boliler runs for / about 1 hr. so i just connected it with pipes from hd and lowes, just for now. it needs to be done correctly.

    long story short, house was above 78F, i decided shorts and t-shirt would be fine. So i burned soft part of skin, of my led. probably a second or so. in few days, it turn from blister, to ugly painful thing, but its going away. definitely putting the covers, but top of the covers need to be modified to increase hot air circulation (summer project)

    thank you for the info!
    Thank you!
    @LS123
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 12,010
    @LS123

    You can pick the nozzle size from working backwards.

    Example:

    You add up your EDR of the radiation. Let's say it's 600 EDR

    You take 600 EDR x 240 (btus/square foot of steam) = 144,000 btus thats what the radiation needs

    Multiply the 144,000x 1.25 (this assumes a boiler efficiency of 80%)=180,000 btu

    Multiply the 180,000 x 1.33 (this is the piping and pick up factor) =239,400 btu

    so this boiler needs to be fired with an input of 239,400

    239,400/140,000 (btus/gallon of oil)= 1.71 gallon/hour nozzle




    In your case a .85 firing rate will support about 300EDR

    A .85 nozzle will burn .85 gallons of oil if the burner runs for an hour if the oil pump is set for 100psi oil pressure which used to be the standard. If the oil pressure is adjusted the firing rate changes





  • LS123
    LS123 Member Posts: 456
    thank you @EBEBRATT-Ed
    this is most informative! I checked the test. it said that burner ran only for 4.5 hrs. 0.85 as you mentioned is the correct size for the burner, boiler and the system for my house. its has the psi oil pressure not all the way closed ( may be i am referring to air intake pic attache)

    setting must be correct, there is no black smoke, or smell of unburn oil out of the chimney like one of my neighbors boiler do. thank you


    Thank you!
    @LS123
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 12,010
    @LS123

    No the oil pressure adjustment is on the oil pump itself. What you are refering to is the burners combustion air adjustment or air band
  • LS123
    LS123 Member Posts: 456
    thank you @EBEBRATT-Ed !

    I located the oil pressure change part. why would people increase oil pressure from 100 psi to higher level?
    Thank you!
    @LS123
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 18,953
    LS123 said:

    thank you @EBEBRATT-Ed !

    I located the oil pressure change part. why would people increase oil pressure from 100 psi to higher level?

    Better atomization of the fuel as it's sprayed in, hence better, cleaner, more even combustion.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    LS123
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 12,010
    @LS123
    What @Jamie Hall said.

    Iron Fireman made the first commercial burner that ran 300psi on the oil pump back in the 50s. This was an old trick if you had an older residential burner with less than good combustion you put a smaller nozzle in the burner and boost the pressure up to get back to the same firing rate. The higher the oil pressure the smaller the oil droplets, mixes with the air better for cleaner combustion.


    Took way to long for Beckett and Carlin to catch on to this.
    LS123
  • LS123
    LS123 Member Posts: 456
    @EBEBRATT-Ed , @Jamie Hall thank you both.... learn something totally new!
    Thank you!
    @LS123