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Discontinued part

tcas
tcas Member Posts: 9
Anyone have any thoughts on where I can find a discontinued White Rodgers Gas Valve. 36D27-406. It’s for a HB smith gas boiler

Comments

  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 4,913
    edited January 2021

    you don't need to use an exact replacement .there maybe something else you can use

    Is this a standing pilot valve? is it a single-stage or two-stage? Can you post a picture?
    Edward Young Retired HVAC Contractor & HYDRONICIAN Services first oil burner at age 16 P/T trainer for EH-CC.org
    kcoppSuperTechZman
  • tcas
    tcas Member Posts: 9
    We were told there is no replacement, would you happen to have a suggestion?
  • tcas
    tcas Member Posts: 9
    I’m not sure that will work. Thank you for your help.
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 13,097
    You can find a replacement for virtually any gas valve regardless of what you have been told.

    We could use some information
    What boiler?
    Standing pilot?
    Hot surface ignitor?
    spark ignitor?
    mattmia2SuperTech
  • tcas
    tcas Member Posts: 9
    It’s a hB Smith gs 110 w7h boiler. hB smith told is the part was discontinued and there is no replacement. I’m not sure about the ignitor
  • tcas
    tcas Member Posts: 9
    I’m so appreciative of all your help, what picture, would you like?
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 4,913
    edited January 2021
    So far, what I have found is that WR does not have an exact replacement for this valve anymore. The Model number 36D27 is a 24 volt valve that can operate on LP or Natural Gas. It has an Internal regulator and a Solenoid Line interruptor with NO Step function. Meaning it is probably fast opening the -406 portion means the was made specifically for HB Smith. Now i cant find anything on the D model designation 36D27-406 but I believe it means that it is a designation for a single stage valve and what type of ignition (probably Standing Pilot) but I cant be sure.

    It may also be the Cycle Pilot which I believe to be the mercury flame sensor valve. If that is the case then you may want to upgrade with this kit from Honeywell.
    https://www.supplyhouse.com/Resideo-Y8610U4001-Intermittent-Pilot-Control-Conversion-Kit?gclid=Cj0KCQiAmL-ABhDFARIsAKywVackljyCjqGHyw12p17s4MDwRFmKa5boEAGG9HDjqd2yk3ibJ3jeGdgaAiPKEALw_wcB

    If the OP can post a picture, that will help.

    Yours Truly,
    Mr.Ed
    Edward Young Retired HVAC Contractor & HYDRONICIAN Services first oil burner at age 16 P/T trainer for EH-CC.org
    kcoppSuperTech
  • tim smith
    tim smith Member Posts: 2,498
    Call White Rodgers tech support and they can match up, or Honeywell contractor tech line and they will pull up specs to cross over. Almost always come up with one that is appropriate.
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 15,752
    Is this for one of the old electric ignition systems that use mercury-based flame sensors? Pics will help.....
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • tcas
    tcas Member Posts: 9
    Here is the gas valve
  • tcas
    tcas Member Posts: 9

  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 4,913
    looks like the standing pilot model. Does the pilot stay on all the time?
    I don't see a thermocouple for proof of pilot. So there must be another way to detect the pilot flame. can you post the wiring diagram? It is usually on the inside of a door panel.
    Edward Young Retired HVAC Contractor & HYDRONICIAN Services first oil burner at age 16 P/T trainer for EH-CC.org
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 4,913
    edited January 2021
    It does not look like the Cycle Pilot which I believe to be the mercury flame sensor valve. but you can still use this kit if there is no other replacement
    https://www.supplyhouse.com/Resideo-Y8610U4001-Intermittent-Pilot-Control-Conversion-Kit?gclid=Cj0KCQiAmL-ABhDFARIsAKywVackljyCjqGHyw12p17s4MDwRFmKa5boEAGG9HDjqd2yk3ibJ3jeGdgaAiPKEALw_wcB

    I know this is expensive but it is a last resort if your only other choice is a new boiler.

    Yours truly,
    Mr.Ed
    Edward Young Retired HVAC Contractor & HYDRONICIAN Services first oil burner at age 16 P/T trainer for EH-CC.org
    tcas
  • tcas
    tcas Member Posts: 9
    I do not have a wiring diagram.
    Is this of any help?

  • FDNYRETIRED
    FDNYRETIRED Member Posts: 25
    Never forget 09-11-01 FDNY/EMS/NYPD/PAPD/PENTAGON and those still dying.
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 13,097
    edited January 2021
    Somebody has been messing with it there's a gas pressure gauge hooked to it and the regulator cap is missing.

    @tcas

    Maybe if you told us what is going on with the boiler and gas valve we could better help
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 4,913
    edited January 2021
    Here is your IO manual. go to
    https://www.smithboiler.com/html/litlibrary.asp
    then type in GS110 where indicated


    It appears that you have a Direct HSI ignition system and the gas valve will only open after a pre-purge and ignition warm-up period. There is only a one second trial for ignition then there will be a retry. After the 3rd retry, the control will lockout.

    Honeywell VR8305 valve will do the job.

    https://www.supplyhouse.com/Honeywell-VR8305M4801-Standard-Dual-Direct-Ignition-Gas-Valve-Single-Stage

    I just have one question before you purchase the part. If you make an expensive repair and the same problem happens, What will you check next?

    You may just need to clean the flame sensor rod and ground rod
    Edward Young Retired HVAC Contractor & HYDRONICIAN Services first oil burner at age 16 P/T trainer for EH-CC.org
    mattmia2
  • tcas
    tcas Member Posts: 9
    Thank you all for your help. The boiler has a gas leak. Have consulted with HB Smith. Told to clean it, which was done. Next suggestion was to change the gas valve and if that does not solve the problem, it’s time for a new boiler. Both HB Smith and WR, said no longer make the gas valve and there is no replacement suggested by either company.. We’ve searched and can not seem to find the gas valve anywhere. Seems like we are heading to a new boiler.
  • neilc
    neilc Member Posts: 2,084
    yeah, but,
    you don't "clean" gas leaks,
    what was leaking where?
    or what got cleaned?
    known to beat dead horses
    mattmia2
  • PerryHolzman
    PerryHolzman Member Posts: 234
    I'd look at the replacement EdTheHeaterMan recomended if this was my boiler. Its a very small fraction of the cost of a new boiler and installation (and I would not consider it a high cost part)... You might need to do some re-piping of the gas line.

    Perry
  • SuperTech
    SuperTech Member Posts: 1,854
    Gas leak as in natural gas? Or flue gas due to the boiler becoming plugged up with soot? 

    The Honeywell Y8610U electronic ignition retrofit kit should be a perfectly fine option for your boiler.  I've converted plenty of standing pilot furnaces and boilers with that kit. Of course White Rodgers wouldn't recommend a product from a competitor.
    Intplm.
  • Tim McElwain
    Tim McElwain Member Posts: 4,552
    In order to use any retrofit and be legal you must have a factory cross reference listed somewhere or get permission from the boiler manufacturer and get it in writing.
    EdTheHeaterMankcopp
  • HomerJSmith
    HomerJSmith Member Posts: 1,917
    The question is: Why do you think you need a new gas valve? What are your symptoms that led you to believe that you need a new gas valve?

    What do you mean that "the boiler has a gas leak?". I really don't trust homeowners making a diagnosis. It can throw you off.
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 13,097
    Might as well forget this one. You can't fix anything if the information isn't forthcoming
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 4,913

    In order to use any retrofit and be legal you must have a factory cross reference listed somewhere or get permission from the boiler manufacturer and get it in writing.

    Agree. But a new boiler is expensive and this gas valve will work safely. I'm no longer in business and no longer have insurance. I just know what I know, but I know you have more experience with this.

    Devil's Advocate. Does this document cover this situation? It's from the instruction sheet for the Y8610U.

    Edward Young Retired HVAC Contractor & HYDRONICIAN Services first oil burner at age 16 P/T trainer for EH-CC.org
  • FDNYRETIRED
    FDNYRETIRED Member Posts: 25
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=TRoFSNF4zh8

    Think about it and that was from not fooling around with something your not sure of.
    Never forget 09-11-01 FDNY/EMS/NYPD/PAPD/PENTAGON and those still dying.