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New Ultra 230 S4 cycles based on settings poor heat

gdornburg
gdornburg Member Posts: 7
Homeowner selfinstall cannot get boiler to run past the temp limits.  Have amtrol 80 indirect in system.  using wall hung radiators. amtrol hooked to boiler on sys 2, house thermo to tdc for pump on amtrol.  Outdoor sens installed.  Can I remove outdoor sens n jumper it across so boiler does not fault??? heating area approx 3000sqft.  Supply 58> return is fault resets after 30 secs.

boiler appears to be operating by all builtin preset mfg limits.  dont see any dip switches.  have set times 45 min max n 25 min min it never does either it hits target temp n shuts down then starts again after split is reached.

if use just house thermostat it turns boiler on but again runs by presets and stops regardless of setting on thermo with no faults.

House system 1.25" pex to 11 radiators, 4-14k btu & 7-10k btu.  boiler circuit 1"pex.

Bottom line how do I get boiler to run long enough to meet thermostat temp of 72°????  currently 18° outside n 60° inside.

Comments

  • EzzyT
    EzzyT Member Posts: 1,220
    Some pictures of the mechanical piping will help us determine if the boiler is plumbed correctly. Your issues might not be a control problem but more a piping problem.
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 20,463
    You don't say what boiler? You will probably have to go through the installation manual and determine how to adjust the outdoor reset curve -- but that procedure is different for different boilers.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • gdornburg
    gdornburg Member Posts: 7
    will get pics and it the weil mclain ultra 230 series 4
  • gdornburg
    gdornburg Member Posts: 7

  • gdornburg
    gdornburg Member Posts: 7

  • EzzyT
    EzzyT Member Posts: 1,220
    All that piping needs to go it’s all wrong.
    You need hire someone to plumb your mechanical room.
    HVACNUTpecmsg
  • gdornburg
    gdornburg Member Posts: 7
    ok will keep lookin tyvm.  ret, fixed income, rural area not able 2 pay for 4-5 hours driving time not counting any work time all @ full rates.
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 20,463
    What @EzzyT is pointing out is that boilers aren't plug and play. There must have been a manual that came with it which would show you how it should be plumbed. It has to be that way. Those boilers are not simple -- so it pays to follow the directions.

    And... am I seeing Sharkbite fittings? Please, no. No harm to PEX in and of itself -- though in a heating system it should an oxygen barrier type -- but Sharkbites have no place in a permanent job.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 4,864
    gdornburg said:
    ok will keep lookin tyvm.  ret, fixed income, rural area not able 2 pay for 4-5 hours driving time not counting any work time all @ full rates.

    That's all fine and good. Nothing wrong with DIY. But you have to open the manual man!

    This is like the horses left the barn thing. Keep the electric heat going and repipe it correctly. Maybe put some pride into it too.
    Keep this thread open so you can stop back and ask questions along the way if needed. 
    You're programming is wrong. Why Custom? But that's for after the piping. 
    And when all is piped, wired, and programmed correctly, you'll gladly pay a tech to come out to do a combustion test. Also, we're assuming its LP gas and you installed the orifice, but have no idea of gas pressure. Throttle adjustments must be made when converting to LP and you need the equipment to set it correctly, so people dont go blowing themselves up. 
  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 3,567
    What a boiler install Should look like

    With the amount of money "Wasted" on shark bite fittings?
    Jean-David Beyer
  • gdornburg
    gdornburg Member Posts: 7
    k point taken,  actually did use manual, it is LP  n press when running is 12 wci, orifice is correct orifice chngd as part of install (4-13wci).  I have a meter I put on regulator outside and measure WCI with units running.  Pg 38 says it shld b set correct from Fact.  Pg 40 fig 40 if adj needed call U guys.  PEX N sharkbites used with outdoor boiler for several yrs like more than 8 an all worked fine.  Pri 1 is set for DHW which dont use.  Use Pri 2 (default thermostat pg 96 fig 111 plug 15 note) custom to get Max water temp 190 if needed.  Had n ECO 110 system which was specd n recommended by HVAC engineer n it never worked right.  As UR pic shows it shld b plumbed 2 home heating sys and no im not using for DHW @ all.  The indirect heat tank is for add qty.  No pics for that unless Use one UR showing with DHW.  That is most likely how plumbing is going to chng. 

    The boiler itself actually seems to work as advertised in accordance with fig 113 pg 100.  It goes on n off per outdoor temps,  thermostat has no real effect but to turn on after that it runs by outdoor temps regardless of thermo setting.  Now 2 yrs ago a HVAC person was here n added Indirect tank n a TDC.  It never worked even then below 30°.  HVAC person would not rtn calls or come back.  The tank was supposed to provide heated storage.  Thermo wired to TDC which powers pump. Pump circulates home heat thru tank n home. White dial ind is that temp. IND tank wired to boiler pg 96 fig 111 Plug 15 pins 1&2  default for thermostat.  It does turn boiler on but thats it. Never reaches set of 140 shuts off b4 that.

    Since started thread outside temp above 30° lockouts reset n boiler functions as mentioned.  If U look back at both Indicators Boiler furnishing 170° water n water in tank only approx 95°.  In my mind boiler shld continue to run until tank temp approx 140° which it set at.  Side note when chkn Thermo in house and on tank hooked each alone 2 boiler @#2 n it would come on.  But after meeting boiler settings it shutdowns.

    So bottom line as is mentioned n suggested I need to integrate boiler n2 the home system n Ind tank.  This makes perfect sense as then boiler will heat n run with complete sys temps. right now it 2 sep systems.
     
    Also Straighten out plumbing.




  • kcopp
    kcopp Member Posts: 4,091
    Where approx are you located?
    Perhaps we can send a contact your way to help.
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 4,967
    edited January 2021
    I think you already know that the folks here are not impressed with the piping. What they did not mention is that you have lots of cast iron parts. That cast iron will take air that is dissolved in the water (look up Boyles Law and Henry's Law... It's kind of like relative humidity in reverse) and use the oxygen in that air to rust away at the cast iron. With the proper pipes, there is an oxygen barrier that prevents more air from entering the water through the pipe (on a molecular level... It's call osmosis) to continue to rust the cast iron parts. Once the oxygen is exhausted from the boiler water the rusting stops. Pipes and fittings like Copper, Iron, Steel, and PEX with O2 barrier are the kind of pipes you want to use. PVC and CPVC are not on the list of pipes that block or deter air penetration thru the pipe walls.

    Eventually, the rust will build up in the boiler and clog the water-side with a muddy sludge and your boiler will fail. It may take a few years... But it will happen.

    Here is some information on that subject https://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/135931/oxygen-permeability-of-pvc-pipe

    Besides, Copper will hold up better and look better even with shark bite fittings. But you can do better.

    If you don't want to solder the copper pipes maybe you can get a used ProPress tool. After the job is completed, you can sell it on eBay or Craigslist

    Respectfully Submitted
    Mr.Ed
    Edward Young Retired HVAC Contractor & HYDRONICIAN Services first oil burner at age 16 P/T trainer for EH-CC.org
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 4,967
    edited January 2021
    Pipe sizing is important also. Here is a booklet that may give you some insight on using the correct pipe sizes. Get to know the basics on the first few pages. (1 to 5)
    http://media.blueridgecompany.com/documents/ZoningMadeEasy.pdf There is a "Rules of Thumb" with pipe sizing on the back page of the booklet.

    I would use 1" minimum to feed the boiler water side of the Indirect water heater. Even though the pipe tapping may be smaller, you don't want to add to the restriction by adding more small diameter pipes to the design.

    Finally, to resolve your minimum temperature issue, The instruction book page 99 is where you need to start. This is where you go to the menu and select the operating parameters, temperatures, and such. Your control is a newer version that I am not familiar with but if you can't figure it out, the Weil McLain Customer Service line can help. Your warranty will be void since you did not have a pro install it. So say a pro installed it and that you are too far away for the pro to return. You need heat now and the pro can't get there for 3 weeks ... Or something like that.

    And don't send Weil McLain any pictures until you get that piping changed.
    Edward Young Retired HVAC Contractor & HYDRONICIAN Services first oil burner at age 16 P/T trainer for EH-CC.org
    Canucker
  • gdornburg
    gdornburg Member Posts: 7
    Thank You for all the help.  Did not need to do plumbing at this time.  MFG Tech had remove 3 sensors that were installed accord to manual & then take call for heat 2 & jumper.  Select castiron radiators although all radiators are steel 4" flat panel units.  Boiler set 180° max & 150° min with 5° differential.  Thermostst is to TDC for pump on Indirect tank and house loop.  Currently all working as intended