Barnes and Jones Big mouth

fabaze12

I have an 1 year old Barnes and Jones Big Mouth and I can see steam pouring out of it. Any recommendations?

STEAM DOCTOR

Replace. 

ethicalpaul

Mine never did operate where I had confidence in it. I took it out of service and replaced it with two #1 size vents, a Gorton and a Maid O Mist. The MoM is way cheaper and works great. Honestly, it even does great by itself.

My main is about 50 feet and I've done extensive testing on it. The steam just doesn't travel that fast. Even with insulated mains, it still has to work to heat the pipe back up to 212F at the next call for heat and that slows down the steam's progress.

My main only has 200 sq ft EDR on it so that's a variable as well, but for $18 try a MoM #1 and compare against the time from when steam starts being generated to the time it gets to your Big Mouth. I bet it's the same within a few seconds.

fabaze12

@ethicalpaul, I'll put the old Vent-rite #75 back on. I'll take a look at the one you mentioned. 

The Gorton #2 I used to replace another #75 seems to be doing fine.

Thanks!

bmma

I had back luck with the Big Mouth. First one leaked steam throughout the heating cycle, they replaced the disk and that was essentially just wide open and poured steam into my basement. They replaced the entire thing and that one was like the first, never sealing completely and leaking steam throughout the cycle. I replaced it with Gorton #2s and I've had no problems since.

fabaze12

@bmma, thanks. I might have to do the same. Maybe the price difference is worth it...

STEAM DOCTOR

I have installed many Big Mouths. Most were ok but not all

ethicalpaul

STEAM DOCTOR said:

I have installed many Big Mouths. Most were ok but not all

Some are leaking steam right now and no one knows

motoguy128

The two I have, have been fine. Installed one at a customer, and no complaint.... yet. Hmmm...

JUGHNE

Two years ago I put 5 BM's in a school. They are on the first floor, and steam would be reported.
They are on 3-4' risers with valve below in the event they fail.

There is evidence of a little steam passing by the paint on the wall. This has an attic main with down feed supplies.
+1 million btuh boiler, one more season before new school is finished.
They said I could salvage whatever I want at the end of this school year.
I get the air vents/traps/supply orifices' and vaporstat.
Anyone want CI rads??? Plenty of wall hung and floor standing...2 pipes.

Neild5

I have 8 Big Mouths installed on the end of the main and non of them have ever leaked steam when I have tested them.  

fabaze12

Neild5 said:

I have 8 Big Mouths installed on the end of the main and non of them have ever leaked steam when I have tested them.  

I must've gotten that 1 bad vent out of the bunch!

Fred

I have three installed on my system. They were from the first production batch, maybe two or three years old. Never had a problem either.

STEAM DOCTOR

ethicalpaul said:

I have installed many Big Mouths. Most were ok but not all

Some are leaking steam right now and no one knows

Can't help myself. You and your big mouth!!!! (I am sure that you understand the friendly banter intended).

Fizz

Moved in house 2 yr ago,iI have single pipe with 2 mains, one with 130 attached radiation, the other 90, got steammuch faster to end of main; initial set-up had Gorton #1's only, swithced to G #2, and Big mouth, with no improvement on slow main; switched to MOM #1 on both mains and heat is more efficient, with speed to eom slightly slower on slow side.

New England SteamWorks

We have found the Big Mouth failure rate to be very high. Which is a shame, because when they work, they are the best vent. Supposedly this past summer they were reworked and are now "new and improved". We'll see. Our company policy is Big Mouths within 3 miles of our shop. Everywhere else Gorton No. 2s.

B&J has thus far been good about returns, but we can't afford the labor of replacements over 3 states...

ForcedWhaaat

For what it's worth, I have a BM at the end of my dry return, about 3.5 feet above the water line. Accidentally flooded my system a few weeks ago and it was burping out 20 years' worth of nasty water. Pulled it off, rinsed it out, and it still works just fine.

Dave0176

I stopped using Big Mouths because I had high failure rates, and I usually ended up eating the cost because it’s a pain to ship them back. I’ve installed a lot of them and I often wonder that some of those customers that don’t look at things if those vents are leaking. So I’m back to using Gorton No 2s have not had any issues with them, I can’t say the same for the Gorton No1s their another vent with steam leaking issues.

New England SteamWorks

Agree! No2s are good, but No1s can leak...

Neild5

Neild5 said:

I have 8 Big Mouths installed on the end of the main and non of them have ever leaked steam when I have tested them.  

Update, 2 weeks after posting this I noticed steam leaking from 2 and evidence of leaks on a third.  I disassembled them and the 2 that were leaking bad, the oring that seals the disk looked like it melted, I replaced with new high temp orings.  

ethicalpaul

This is strange. Not much melts at only 212 degrees. Especially not materials sourced by a company that works with steam all the time. Mine seemed to leak from a lack of closing force on the disc but I didn't do a deep dive on it.

ChrisJ

ethicalpaul said:

This is strange. Not much melts at only 212 degrees. Especially not materials sourced by a company that works with steam all the time. Mine seemed to leak from a lack of closing force on the disc but I didn't do a deep dive on it.

Perhaps the clamping pressure is much higher than expected and it's actually flattening the seal too much and permanently deforming them over time?

ethicalpaul

Maybe! If you want to experiment on mine you can have it. But I replaced it with an $18 Maid o' Mist #1 and never looked back.

I bought the Big Mouth when I was "all in" on fast fast fast main venting before I had timed mine and determined that a #1 was enough.

ChrisJ

ethicalpaul said:

Maybe! If you want to experiment on mine you can have it. But I replaced it with an $18 Maid o' Mist #1 and never looked back.

I bought the Big Mouth when I was "all in" on fast fast fast main venting before I had timed mine and determined that a #1 was enough.

No need,
I have a special version that was sent to me that I never got around to trying out. If I get time, I'll have a look see.

JohnNY

I have a 100% leak rate with these vents and have no idea what it is that people like about them except for the fun name.

gfrbrookline

I have 7 on my system, I have had 1 fail, which b&j replaced. I have had 3 Gorton no. 2' stick open. Both have their pros and cons.

PhilKulkarni

I have had 2 out of 4 fail with steam poring out of them within 2 yrs. Found them to be the culprit when boiler started calling for water every 6-10 days. Replaced them with Gorton #2s.

The Steam Whisperer

I've used both G#2 and Big mouths over the past several years and both have unacceptable defect rates, so I have just stuck with the Big Mouths for most jobs in the past 3 to 4 years. I just bump up my price on the parts to compensate for the defects I have to replace. I seem to have about a 3 to 5% defect rate....is easy to tell since I often install 20 to 30 vents in a single large building. It seems that many leaking Big Mouths I have had is because the ball type pivot for the flat, round plate that shuts off the steam is too stiff and can't conform to the sealing surface.

Steamhead

We've settled on the Gorton #2 for most large-vent applications, and we use the Big Mouth when we need a large crossover trap. I can't remember when was the last time we had a #2 fail either out of the box or shortly after installation- but we sent it back to Gorton and they replaced it.

The Steam Whisperer

Maybe we need to try the #2's again... it just that we will need twice as many to get the same capacity

ChrisJ

To be fair, if those who have had problems with big mouth vents and Gorton vents multiple times just toss them and don't tell the manufacturers they will never fix the problem.

All they know is for some mysterious reason sales have gone down so let's just drop the product.

Next thing you know the only thing we can buy are Hoffman 4s.

The Steam Whisperer

Both Gorton and B and J were made aware of the problems we were having. They actually responded, which is a rare thing nowadays. We just replaced 2 Peerless boilers on our dime and we couldn't even get them to come out to look at them..... pretty typical corporate attitude.

SteamHeat

So if a person is going to try a B & J Big Mouth, should they have a Gorton #2 standing by if the B & J does not work / fails, or is the Maid-O-Mist Jacobus Steam Vent Model 1 the best fall back alternative if the B & J does not work or fails ???

JUGHNE

I have put several B&JBM in a schoolhouse on supply pipe drops near the end of attic riser branches. I put them up on 3/4" X 4' risers with a ball valve up near the air vents.
One set up is in a class room another in storage closet. I told the custodian if these things start to spit a lot of water to shut the valve off and call me.
This is 50 miles away from me so a lot of water could pass by the time I got there.

He has not called after 2 heating seasons. The height is important.
Can't get that much in most basements.

ethicalpaul

In my experience, the Big Mouth wasn't really spitting, it was just letting steam flow by. I have no idea the overall failure rate of course, but in my house the MoM and Gorton #1 have never failed.

I'm unhappy to hear the side story of Peerless not coming to look at their failed boilers. I expected that when they refused to talk to me, a DIY homeowner, that the reason was so that their support resources could be focused on their contractor installers. I guess they are just refusing to talk to everyone.