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New, noisy TACO 007

Just swapped in a new 007, which is now noisy like the one it replaced. System was fast purged using full pressure supply feed. Can this racket be caused by air still in the system?

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0q4h-JNCEkIVGnzB6J3c8ZOuQ

Comments

  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 5,444
    Hard to tell, but there’s a few Taco guys who regularly come to this forum. Sounds like it’s air locked?
    Air, installed backwards, debris in impeller, damaged ifc are what I’d check first.
    steve
    mikeapolis
  • woobagooba
    woobagooba Member Posts: 139
    Related. Do I risk any damage doing a purge (colder water) on a system that is already at operating temp (180F)? Thanks
  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 2,558

    Related. Do I risk any damage doing a purge (colder water) on a system that is already at operating temp (180F)? Thanks

    I don't think you want to find out!
    mikeapolis
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 15,380
    Stand back and take a pic. Be good to see the relationship of the Tacos to the expansion tank and that air vent. In some cases you can actually pull air thru a vent, and you never purge all the air out.
    As you heat water you drive additional air out, so at 180 for a few hours you should be 100% air free with a good air removal device.
    What pressure you running?
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 11,093
    The pump should be so quiet you can't here it run
    ethicalpaulSuperTechMaxMercy
  • woobagooba
    woobagooba Member Posts: 139
    More pics ... 4 zones (one the indirect HW tank). Purge valves on the returns


    .



  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 15,380
    Everything looks good from what I see. Wonder if the air purger is plugged or cap tightened down? Floats inside them can hang up sometimes.
    If anything pressure is a tad high, assuming the gauge is accurate.
    The relief valve hasn't been discharging and allowing fresh water in?
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • woobagooba
    woobagooba Member Posts: 139
    Yes I saw that pressure is a bit high. I will check the purger cap. No signs of water coming from the relief valve (beyond testing it a couple weeks back). I am now noticing some gurgling in the problem zone, which is frustrating as I've purged all 4 zones @ street pressure individually for 10-15 minutes. I'll try again. Cheers
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 15,380

    Yes I saw that pressure is a bit high. I will check the purger cap. No signs of water coming from the relief valve (beyond testing it a couple weeks back). I am now noticing some gurgling in the problem zone, which is frustrating as I've purged all 4 zones @ street pressure individually for 10-15 minutes. I'll try again. Cheers

    If you did a good power purge and have flow in all the loops, that Supervent should take over and have all air out within a day. That is why it is called a SuperVent. I suppose?
    Assuming it is an air related noise.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • Tomizai
    Tomizai Member Posts: 10
    What caught my eye first was the red circulator to the right. It needs to be rotated 90 degrees so the motor/shaft is horizontal.
    That's not likely to be causing the noise however.

    Trying to think outside the box, it sounds almost like a metal to metal contact. Looking at the picture, does the stem of the pressure reducing valve make contact with the elbow?
    SuperJ
  • woobagooba
    woobagooba Member Posts: 139
    Ah the pic is deceiving, the pressure reducer is rotated to clear the elbow. There is likely air in the system. Not sure how.
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 2,529
    edited October 2020
    Same noise from 2 separate pumps? And you determined which of the 4 pumps in the picture is the noise-maker? I'm guessing the pump with the black sticker is the replacement.

    It sounds like the pump is operating dry. Not just a little air... DRY, No water at all! And yes that can destroy the pump because it is a wet rotor pump. Needs to be in water for lubrication and cooling. Is it possible the internal flow check is blocking water from getting there? Do the other quiet pumps circulate heat properly?

    When you changed the pump, did you replace it from flange to flange, or did you replace only the pump cartridge and motor housing by using the 4 hex head bolts, leaving the impeller housing still attached to the flanges? Just wondering if the noise is a defective casting on the impeller housing...

    Ed

    Edward Young
    Retired HVAC Contractor from So. Jersey Shore.
    Cleaned & services first oil heating system at age 16
  • SteveSan
    SteveSan Member Posts: 109
    edited October 2020
    Can you take an amp reading off the motor? Nameplate amps for a typical 007 is .72 amps. Like others have posted, could be air in the system or some debris inside the volute. If you can isolate the pump, removed the 4 bolts and very briefly apply power to the motor leads see if the imp. spins freely. When first installed because of the non-corrosive pills we put in all the cartridge assembly they will make some noise at the beginning until they dissolve. One other thing you can check is the motor temp, under normal operation should be between 140-160 degrees. If you need some assistance you can always call into Taco Tech Support at 401-942-8000 Mon-Fri 8am-5pm EST.
    mikeapolis
  • SuperJ
    SuperJ Member Posts: 605
    edited October 2020
    I think that red Grundfos pump in the background is improperly installed. The impeller shaft needs to be horizontal regardless of the pump orientation. It's vertical in the picture. Is it operational?

    EDIT: I see this was mentioned already.
  • Dave H_2
    Dave H_2 Member Posts: 491
    Even when purging, fill water from the street still introduces 10% air. It does sound like it is running dry.
    Do you have the IFC check valve installed?

    When was this installed? before heating season?

    What I have found is the first circulator gets air stuck in the volute of the circ with an IFC installed especially when the circs are pointed up like this install. The service is performed and purged, but then sits for a while. The air accumulates in the fi
    rst loop and then when it is started, the volute is dry.

    I try to jack the pressure up a little higher than normal to help "squish" the air slugs and get them moving around the system back to the air eliminator. Make sure the air vent is open and listen for the hissing, you will then see the pressure start to drop as the air is removed.
    Jut remember at the end to make sure you bring the pressure back down to normal operating settings.

    Dave H.
    Dave H
  • woobagooba
    woobagooba Member Posts: 139
    Black sticker is a flange to flange replacement. Just purged the loops for a second time. All quiet now. Though pressure insists on creaping up to 40 psi. Will keep an eye on that and the pressure relief valve.
  • Dave H_2
    Dave H_2 Member Posts: 491
    edited October 2020
    is it creeping up when it is heating up? That would be normal if the cold pressure is already high.
    Cold pressure should be 12psi as well as the expansion tank pressure. Only check the exp tank pressure with the water pressure removed from the tank.
    If you started at 12psi cold and the pressure keeps building, need to check the integrity of the exp tank and also the pressure reducing/fill valve

    Dave H.
    Dave H
    mikeapolis
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 2,529
    I believe @woobagooba types "PSI" but is reading the "Ft. H20" scale. the actual PSI is more like 12 psi. at 30 Ft. H20
    Edward Young
    Retired HVAC Contractor from So. Jersey Shore.
    Cleaned & services first oil heating system at age 16
    mikeapolis SuperTech
  • Dave H_2
    Dave H_2 Member Posts: 491
    @EdTheHeaterMan That makes all the world of difference!

    I was getting concerned about the relief valve then.

    Sounds like all good! But I would still check the exp tank!

    Dave H.
    Dave H
  • Joe Mattiello
    Joe Mattiello Member Posts: 626
    looks like you have a lot of support; thanks to Heatinghelp.com
    Great resource for system issues. I saw the picture of the header with Taco pumps (thanks) that appear to be pumping downward towards expansion tank. I could be wrong. If I'm correct, you can cause pressure reducing valve to bring more water into the system every time pump energizes which will cause system pressure spikes. It's always good to pump away from expansion tank, point of no pressure change. Great resource is Dan Holohan's Pumping Away book covering this exact phenomenon. If we learned one thing, it's not the pumps, and system related. Someone mentioned red pump installed with motor vertical under the pump, that's never a good for the pump. Anyway, I don't feel I can add much to what everyone else already mentioned, except you can always contact Taco for tech support for these types of issues.
    Joe Mattiello
    N. E. Regional Manger, Commercial Products
    Taco Comfort Solutions
  • HomerJSmith
    HomerJSmith Member Posts: 1,418
    edited October 2020
    So the second purge solved the noise problem? A cold system 15psi is not a problem. I prefer a higher psi and set my sys pressure to 15psi. A higher pressure (above 12psi that tank bladder pressure which is the set pressure from the factory) has its advantages.

    I would shut off the boiler supply water for a week or so and see it the cold water pressure declines which would indicate a loss of water from the sys.
  • Joe Mattiello
    Joe Mattiello Member Posts: 626
    yes, the tank pressure should equal cold fill system pressure so you have equilibrium pressure in system. remember, high pressure goes to low pressure everytime. hopefully this help
    Joe Mattiello
    N. E. Regional Manger, Commercial Products
    Taco Comfort Solutions
  • woobagooba
    woobagooba Member Posts: 139

    I believe @woobagooba types "PSI" but is reading the "Ft. H20" scale. the actual PSI is more like 12 psi. at 30 Ft. H20

    Yes it helps if I can learn to read a gauge correctly :#

    System seems then to be operating at a reasonable pressure.

    I will check the exp tank and fix the indirect HW pump mounting.

    Thanks everyone.