Need help deciding on boiler/water heater for my first home

AlaskaRN

Hello all! I'm in the final stages of purchasing a home and during the inspection we found out that it needed a new boiler sooner than later. Because it is winter here, I need to have as much of my research done before I close so that I can get the heating system replaced before I move in, without too much delay. Currently, the boiler is a natural gas, cast iron furnace estimated to be over 50 years old, with a lot of rust inside. The hot water heater is newer, around 13 years old, and I'd like to replace it at the same time. The heat is supplied through hot water baseboard heaters. I unfortunately don't have the specifics as far as how many feet of hwbb. I could possibly get this info if its needed. The home is primarily built over a crawlspace with an addition on a slab. The house is a 1350sf 3 bed 2 bath, and we live in Anchorage, AK.

I don't know if this is a factor but the boiler and HWH are in the crawlspace on the opposite side of the house from the hatch, and not in a convenient location at all.

I have an energy audit ready to go after I close that will help me calculate the size of the boiler I'll require and identify other areas of improvement. I also would like to insulate the attic, the walls of the crawlspace and generally improve the efficiency and tighten up the house as best I can, likely over the next couple years. Currently, the crawlspace is vented and completely uninsulated. The attic has mostly cellulose insulation at around r30-40. Both the attic and crawlspace are dry without evidence of any previous moisture issues.

My goals for the heating system are as follows:
1. adequately warm in the winter, with decent hot water supply. We like baths, what can I say. I've lived in drafty, chilly houses for years and I really want to have a system that works. We have long, decently cold winters here and spend a lot of time inside, so air quality and comfort is important to me.
2. fuel/cost-efficient, both in terms of maintenance, and operating costs- I'd like to strike a balance here and get something that's going to be reliable. If it were a question of spending a little more and getting something more reliable, I'd do that. I have had bad experiences with the higher efficiency furnaces, but I'm open to them if the technology has improved. I'm okay with going lower efficiency with the furnace and making up for it in other areas, like insulation.
3. I'd like to have a closed combustion furnace (based on my endless. "research" that's mostly just given me even more questions!) I'm not sure what this means for the house as a whole, or if I'd need to get other equipment to keep the inside air circulating at a decent rate.
4. I'm planning in participating in energy efficiency interest rate reduction program, so increasing my "star" rating can end up saving me quite a bit of money in the long run if I can attain that. This may factor into what equipment I choose, but I'd rather get the right stuff for the house than just check boxes on an energy saving checklist.

My questions:
I have a HVAC company that seems great, but what kind of questions can I ask to get a feel for if they are a good fit for the project. I got some pictures of previous builds, and they look very tidy and awesome, but I don't really know what I'm looking at.

What are some boiler/hw options that might meet my needs? Again, if I had to choose I'd spend a little more to get the right equipment for the application. I'm open to any combinations of boiler/hw.

Thank you SO much in advance for any replies- it's incredibly overwhelming making such a huge decision, but in a way I'm glad I get to make it for the house, and make sure it's done right.

Ironman

What is your fuel source?

AlaskaRN

@Ironman , I can't believe I forgot to mention that! Natural gas. I'll edit my post above as well.

Ironman

You’ll get some varying opinions on this, but we very seldom install cast iron boilers any more. The new ones are almost as complex as the more efficient mod/cons and we’re doing more repairs on them than the higher efficiency ones.

The Key is to find a good, competent HYDRONIC contractor and go with his recommendations. Caution: the average HVAC or plumbing contractor is usually clueless about hydronics. Put your effort into finding a good one and keep posting questions here.

mattmia2

If it is in a place where it is hard to get to, once you find someone who relly knows hydronics, it could be worth it to see if it really needs replacement or if it only needs some cleaning, adjustment, and minor repairs.

Zman

In Ak, the most important detail is going to be local support. Go with a boiler model that has local parts and manufacture support. Most sealed combustion boilers are going to be mod/cons. I know that in rural AK, simple cast iron boilers are the most common as there is less to go wrong and they are easy to work on.
@rick in Alaska is just around the corner on the Kenia, he has a wealth of knowledge.

AlaskaRN

Zman said:

In Ak, the most important detail is going to be local support. Go with a boiler model that has local parts and manufacture support. Most sealed combustion boilers are going to be mod/cons. I know that in rural AK, simple cast iron boilers are the most common as there is less to go wrong and they are easy to work on.
@rick in Alaska is just around the corner on the Kenia, he has a wealth of knowledge.

Anchorage is a fairly big city with a lot of HVAC companies. It's definitely not rural here, but I've lived in places like that where parts are days away. I think most of the big names in boilers have a good amount of local support, but I'll ask around. The quotes I've received so far recommend a Lochinvar and a Weil McClain, and I currently have a Weil McClain high efficiency furnace that we've never had an issue ordering (so many) parts for.

Thanks for the reply.

AlaskaRN

@Zman how do I determine if somebody really knows hydronics? I know the palces I'm looking into have installed a lot of hwbb systems and been recommended by people I've asked, but are their questions I can ask them to determine if they are the right person for the job? As I said, I've seen examples of their previous jobs- would that tell me what I need to know? Maybe @rick in Alaska knows the scoop?

Thanks for the reply!

AlaskaRN

@mattmia2 this was the inspection: " overall condition: poor; considerable rust in combustion chamber" and the recommended fixes are: replace 3/4" GM cock and gas flex, remove threads from relief pipe" Also, the vent was too close to the floor joist and would need to be moved away from combustibles. the hot water heater has some issues as well, "no clearance to check anode" "re-vent" and "replace 1/2" gas shutoff and gas flex" The cost, overall, would be significant, and when I spoke to the company owner he said the repairs were superficial and addressing the immediate safety concerns of the improper venting and gas flex lines used, but in the end I'd still be left with a furnace in pretty poor condition because of the amount of rust in the combustion chamber.

Additionally, this system as is apparently runs an average of $170/month fuel costs which seems pretty high for a small house.

This is all making me think about replacing instead of repairing, although if the boiler was in better shape I'd definitely prefer that route. I was under the impression that a large amount of rust in the combustion chamber was a bad sign, and I also know that this furnace and water heater have been very rarely maintained.

mattmia2

The rust could be a bad sign, it could just be a sign that it never was cleaned. If you replace it you might think of finding someplace in a utility room or something to put a wall hung mod con so you can service it more easily. A mod con won't likely be much more efficient than a properly set up cast iron boiler with baseboard but it will take up a lot less space.

SuperTech

Since space is an issue,  perhaps a stackable Energy Kinetics EK-1F with a Carlin gas burner would be a good option. Efficiency in the high 80% range, more simple and reliable than a mod con and it would definitely last longer. No need to change venting or deal with condensate drainage either. 

I just don't know if you have any Energy Kinetics dealers available in the Anchorage area. If you do, it might be a good option. No need for a condensing boiler if you have high temperature emmitters like baseboard. You probably won't get any better efficiency than the EK boiler, and you would have a less reliable and higher maintenance boiler with a mod con. 

AlaskaRN

Thank you. My person hasn’t worked with those and vertical space is an issue but they look awesome. 

hot_rod

plenty of good hydronics guys around there, I see real nice jobss on IG in Anchorage. A load calc and baseboard review would tell a lot. In some cases the baseboard can run lower temperature and may work within a mod con efficiency point for some of the season.
Really the best money for lowering fuel cost would be to upgrade insulation, seal any air leaks. A blower door test may be available from local utilities.

AlaskaRN

@hot_rod thank you! I am really impressed with Greg from Muotka, I have a few pics of his builds, and they are clean. He called me yesterday and explained things at length and I really feel like he’s the guy for the job. Obviously I’m pretty concerned about this, and he could have taken advantage of that but he said precisely what you did- get a energy audit, see what you can fix/ insulate easily, we have time to sort out a game plan. The current furnace is old and rusty but functional and I’m going to just get it serviced.

i think what a lot of homeowners want isn’t to call the shots or learn every nuance about hydro I s, they just want to know when they’ve found someone who is trustworthy, and feel good taking advice. That’s what I want anyways! I’m so relieved because this gives me a little more breathing room, and I can really think about all my options, including relocating the furnace. The furnace I really like, the mid efficiency Weil McClain that’s still closed combustion, can’t remember the name, won’t come close to fitting down there.  You have to go down a ladder and then crawl 20 feet, it’s ridiculous. 

I’m so grateful for the advice I received here. I know it’s probably not the most interesting topic to discuss but it’s really helpful to hear everyone’s thoughts. Thanks again.