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Toilet Flange on floating floor?

JackW
JackW Member Posts: 149
I'm redoing a small bathroom and would like some help with where to place the toilet flange. Should I install the flange directly to the floor and cut the flooring around the flange it or should I install the flange directly on top of the flooring? The old flange was fastened to the floor with the ceramic tiles cut around the flange. Had to chisel out the old flange and fill the void with concrete as you can see in the pictures. If I install the flange directly on the concrete it barely sticks up above the flooring, obviously if I install it directly to the flooring that's not a problem. My thought is to install the flange directly on the flooring and use the rubber extension to fill the gap and seal the 3' line. The plastic flange fits into the sewer pipe but it's not a tight fit and I'm afraid sewer gas will leak around it. Any thought and suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Jack







Comments

  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,491
    Is that a floating laminate floor?
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 14,552
    ideally on top of the finished floor and securely fastened.
    If you fasten it to the subfloor and finish floor around it, you can buy flange spacers to bolt on, or a deep set wax ring.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    JackW
  • TAG
    TAG Member Posts: 441
    The big thing is for the flange to be sealed tight to the waste pipe -- remember the toilet's outlet should always extend past the flange .... the wax just seals the top .... The flange can be on top of the floor .. either way the bolts are going to pull the floor down .... with the flange on the floor the flange is doing most of it.

    Old toilets had deeper outlets ... new toilets don't and need to have the flange on the finished floor
    JackW
  • Larry Weingarten
    Larry Weingarten Member Posts: 2,082
    Hi, Have a look at the toilet you’re going to use. I just had the experience of needing to set the ring of the flange flush with the finished surface because of a fancy toilet design I’d not met before.

    Yours, Larry
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 14,552
    I had the same experience with one of those flanges that glue inside 3" PVC, some toilet "horns" may not fit inside the flange.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    Canucker
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,491
    If only someone could agree on a standard for toilet connections over the past 120+ years.........


    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    JackWIntplm.
  • TAG
    TAG Member Posts: 441
    Another mistake people make is they add one of the wax rings with the horn ..

    If you really take a look at what that is doing .... you will not do it.

    The toilet outlet (horn) should just dump straight into the pipe w/ the horn of the toilet bellow the flange lip.
    JackW
  • JackW
    JackW Member Posts: 149
    @ChrisJ Yes I believe so. It's Metroflor Engage Genesis flooring, the tiles are 32"x16" that snap together.

    @hot_rod the way it looks I'm going to install the flange on top of the finished floor. Won't have to cut nearly as big of a hole that way also. Thanks.

    @TAG the outlet on this toilet is short, I have it out in the garage and it sits flush on the floor, no rocking. As you can see in the picture I'm going to use that rubber extension that fits on the outlet and seals inside the 3" sewer line along with a wax ring of course. Thanks.

    @Larry Weingarten the outlet on this toilet is flush with the bottom of the toilet. Thanks.

    @hot_rod I have to use that rubber extension for a continuous connection down into the existing 3" line, plus it seals it.

    @ChrisJ No kidding.

    @Tag Good point. Right now I have a Harvey 35B which has one of those horns on it, I will have to return it since I'm using that rubber extender I don't need or want a wax ring with the built in horn. Thanks.
  • jumper
    jumper Member Posts: 1,592
    TAG said:

    Another mistake people make is they add one of the wax rings with the horn ..

    If you really take a look at what that is doing .... you will not do it.

    The toilet outlet (horn) should just dump straight into the pipe w/ the horn of the toilet bellow the flange lip.

    That's what plumbers say but I bet HomeDepot sells way more funneled.
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 14,552
    I prefer non wax rings for toilets especially on radiant floors. There are a handful of brands that offer non wax lifetime bowl seals.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    ethicalpaul
  • rick in Alaska
    rick in Alaska Member Posts: 1,159
    Plumbing code says the flange should be mounted to the top of the finished grade. I try and have the floor done before I set the flange, then I know exactly the finished height.
    Rick
  • heathead
    heathead Member Posts: 137
    You need to get a flange that will glue or seal to your drain pipe. What is the pipe in the floor? You said it is not sealing and just sliding in correct and maybe using wax for that part correct. I think you need to glue or use another type that fits the pipe. The first pic is of a toilet flange built for 4 inch cast iron, the next if for 3 inch drain pipe.


    Just to clairfy the plumbing pro's don't like the wax rings with the plastic flanges built in "the horn" ? . My I ask why want to learn. Thank you.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,491
    edited September 2020
    heathead said:
    Just to clairfy the plumbing pro's don't like the wax rings with the plastic flanges built in "the horn" ? . My I ask why want to learn. Thank you.

    I don't know but I have heard many say they don't.  I believe one reason is there's no room for it with PVC.  So the wax gets pushed out and your using plastic jammed in there as a seal.


    I've heard horn with cast iron, no horn with plastic.   I haven't done one yet, but that's what I gathered from the pros. 


    If home depot mainly sells ones with a horn that's good enough for me to not buy that style.  


    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 14,552
    I think it comes down to what type and size of flange you have, whether or not you can use a no-seep style ring, no-seep has the plastic horn built into the wax.
    Still plenty of plumbers using 4X3 closet bends for toilets, 4" flange allows plenty of room for setting with any style bowl wax.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    BillyO
  • heathead
    heathead Member Posts: 137
    Thanks for the clarification. I installed a toilet with a 4 inch cast iron flange with one of the wax rings with the horn and was worried about if the horn came out of wax could it fit down the drain line and block drain. ie fit down the 4inch pipe then somehow lodge in place down the line. It would be very unlikely to come out of wax, if it did it would be very hard to clear the drain of the plastic piece.
  • TAG
    TAG Member Posts: 441
    How did you seal the new flange to the old pipe? That's the important part .. must be water tight.

    Years ago with older style toilets having long horns and houses with thick cast iron flanges -- the bottom of the horn was way down in the flange. Most toilets today are thin walled --- if they made the horn past the bottom of the toilet they would all get shipping damage. It's even more important today to have the flange on top of the finished floor.

    The wax ring with the horn .. think about what it is doing ... it's making the hole smaller ? There is a possibility of blow back depending on the toilets horn ... and now the bottom part of the ring become most important. Pros don't like them because they can leak ...

    With a proper system the water leaves the toilet and drops into the pipe. No pressure ... that's why the pros use two rings (double it up) if it's questionable.
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 14,552
    I think the inside of the hub or horn on the bottom of most toilets measures
    2-1/2“ ID, so any wax with or without the sleeve will work fine

    years ago there was a movement to reduce toilet piping to 2-1/2, the concept was that low flush toilets would better fill the smaller diameter and move solids better. Never happened, except in some RV toilets.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
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