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Pictures of 45 yr old peerless

bleederbleeder Member Posts: 28
edited September 9 in THE MAIN WALL
So Im a building superintendent living at the building Im managing. Currently renting out my two family My current boiler 45 yr peerless 120. oil fired steam one pipe system heats the second floor of Two family home built 1925 second floor flat has 6 radiators only one really big one , the apt is 986 sq ft , both porches 3 season. I put in contractor windows in 98 . There is an old 7 inchs of fiberglass insulation in attic being gone over with 13" of new from home works - soon. I joined this forum last week , very impressed with the knowledge of here I look forward to your advice over the next week or two or 3?
my last oil man told me to get a new oil boiler a couple of years ago because of the ineffecincy

Comments

  • ethicalpaulethicalpaul Member Posts: 1,730
    Your question is "can a steam boiler be run successfully with gas?"

    The answer is hell yes. I personally like gas because it can be a LOT quieter, a bit cheaper, and you don't have to have a smelly hazardous substance stored on your property refilled every heating month. Oil people will say that oil doesn't explode, but neither does gas with a minimum of competent installation and maintenance.

    It seems like you might have a whole lot of other questions in there but I admit I couldn't parse them out.

    I will add that it's vital when replacing an oil or gas steam boiler that you size it to *your installed radiation*! Not your insulation, not your sq feet of space, not how many bedrooms, and definitely NOT the size of your existing boiler!

    Come visit the Strictly Steam subforum and look at pictures of nice installs and people asking questions similar to yours.

    https://forum.heatinghelp.com/categories/strictly-steam
    1 pipe Peerless 63-03L in Cedar Grove, NJ, coal > oil > NG
    bleeder
  • mattmia2mattmia2 Member Posts: 1,740

    Oil people will say that oil doesn't explode, but neither does gas with a minimum of competent installation and maintenance.

    I have a distant cousin that was an insurance adjuster. He said he has seen lots of claims for fires from oil. The only claim he saw for gas was from someone who had intentionally disconnected some piping in a suicide attempt.

    ethicalpaulbleeder
  • Jamie HallJamie Hall Member Posts: 13,209
    Neither oil nor gas is dangerous, properly installed and maintained. Both of them can cause difficulties, shall we say, if not properly installed and maintained.

    If you can smell oil in the property, you have a leak somewhere; it wouldn't be such a bad idea to take some time and find it. If you can seriously smell oil (that nice diesel smell we used to like!) outside, the combustion settings on the burner are way off.

    If you can smell gas, don't touch any switches for anything and leave the premises. Then call the gas company and fire department.

    A much more pertinent consideration is -- can you get gas at all? And if so, how does the price per BTU compare with oil? In some areas, this may make one or the other non-competitive, or simply a non-starter.
    Br. Jamie, osb

    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England.

    Hoffman Equipped System (all original except boiler), Weil-Mclain 580, 2.75 gph Carlin, Vapourstat 0.5 -- 6.0 ounces per square inch
  • EBEBRATT-EdEBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 7,227
    The first day of school the instructor told us if there was a problem with oil you remodel, with gas you rebuild LOL
    I would go gas and get rid of the oil tank
    ethicalpaul
  • EdTheHeaterManEdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 724
    edited September 4
    I have a question about the fact that the building is a 2 family. How is it divided... up and down or side by side?

    Next... if side by side, are there 2 different main feeders to the radiators? (one for each side)

    If properly separated, you can use 2 smaller gas boilers and run them from separate gas meters. Separate water heaters might also be easy. Then separate gas cooking. Now you don't need to pay for someone else's heating bill.

    Do that before you move back and get a lower fuel bill for when you do move back home. A good steam man would need to look at this to tell you if it is feasible.

    Oil is out of the question for separate heat, a second tank, boilers are more expensive and may not be small enough. Gas boilers do come in smaller sizes than oil boilers.

    Just an Idea
    Ed

    P.S. if it is an "up and down" duplex, I must take a quote from Emily Litella... "NEVERMIND"



  • mattmia2mattmia2 Member Posts: 1,740

    The first day of school the instructor told us if there was a problem with oil you remodel, with gas you rebuild LOL
    I would go gas and get rid of the oil tank

    Was that when gas was carbon monoxide and didn't have an oderant?
  • bleederbleeder Member Posts: 28
    edited September 9
    Been living in the two family up and down all my life until bought from dad condo 1st floor own second floor 7 yrs ago I became a live in sup in boston -free condo so im renting my 2nd floor apt,
    1st floor heats with gas and 2nd floor upstairs we use oil always have and I have never smelled oil in all the years living there, well cared for peerless has treated us right. But lots of oil use its burns oil like there no tomorrow I had a new line from tank put in 15 years ago could of sworn it was leaking out underground but that didnt change anything my oil co says its time for new boiler (oil man) my brother the service man moved to Maine says its old but should be at 82- why wouldnt it be, I was filling the water once a week then had new steam valves put on oil co put in automatic feed and it cut the water use down to

    * year to date 16 gallons of water - 900 gallons of oil and 12 months hot water also. not a cold winter , not a lg apt..

    I think she is burning to hot set at 160 water controls are old. thats why I need an electric water tank for storage 40 gal in summer if I stay with oil.
    Still havent decided leaning tords gas to get tank out tank is 50 years old
  • bleederbleeder Member Posts: 28

  • bleederbleeder Member Posts: 28
    edited September 9
    .

  • bleederbleeder Member Posts: 28

  • bleederbleeder Member Posts: 28
    edited September 9
    she used 900 gallons year to date  it was particularly not very cold of a season
  • SnowmeltSnowmelt Member Posts: 1,222
    I sent you a message, but we can size it up be radiator sq ft of steam and get a tankless coil in the new boiler just like you have now or put in a 40 gallon water heater. I have a company that I work with that takes out oil tanks.
    George
  • mattmia2mattmia2 Member Posts: 1,740
    That soot, if it is still happening is definitely not helping your efficiency, if it were cleaned and tuned properly that would make it a fair bit more efficient.
  • HVACNUTHVACNUT Member Posts: 3,483
    Stay with oil and get the MegaSteam. IMO. The JOT was a decent boiler for its day, up until '83 when they had serious block recalls. Even the replacement  blocks where super tight. 
  • bleederbleeder Member Posts: 28
    must be old soot burning clean flame
  • bleederbleeder Member Posts: 28
    edited September 9
    .
  • motoguy128motoguy128 Member Posts: 148
    FWIM the header could use to be changed when you replace it.  Both supplies off the boiler should come together, then the headers are connected, and finally there should be an equalizer pipe to the return.  Because of all the vertical height you are having any issues.  But it can be changed to provide dryer steam.  
  • bleederbleeder Member Posts: 28
    I know venting is very important. The system looks like it just has those two steam valves you see up top is that enough ill send more pics of pipes
  • SnowmeltSnowmelt Member Posts: 1,222
    Good bleeder do you think you can do this yourself, or do you think you just need someone to guide you in the right direction.
  • JUGHNEJUGHNE Member Posts: 7,114
    Is the picture of the attic because there are some steam pipes up there or just to show the lack of insulation?

    It looks as if you still have knob and tube wiring in the attic.
    The single conductor hanging on insulators (knob) shows that.

    The knob and tube system must not be covered with insulation.
    The insulation company should be aware of that and report it to the homeowner. They should be concerned with some liability issue for this.
    The joints on K&T wiring are usually soldered and taped. The wire is typically undersized for the over current protection applied. This is allowed because they are considered to be in free air for cooling the conductors.

    IIWM, I would rewire the entire attic because even the next generation of wiring of "Romex" has overheating problems in insulation. Especially at the light fixtures where the heat of incandescent bulbs has been transferred thru the copper wire to the joints of the Romex. I have found bare copper in boxes where this is an issue, as the insulation has baked off. Close to the fire department being needed.

    So another landlord (deductible BTW) upgrade is needed.

    And you need larger new steam main vents.
    luketheplumber
  • mattmia2mattmia2 Member Posts: 1,740
    The heat from the fixtures is why sometime in the 80's romex transitioned from the internal conductors being type 60c t or tw to being 90 c type thhn.
  • bleederbleeder Member Posts: 28
    edited September 9
    I had an electrician give me an estimate on removing all the Knob and tube wiring last week, Im having this done prior to insulation installed-
    Im making notes about the header and equalizer to go over with installer when time comes, this is great knowledge I am receiving and appreciate. Same about needing the larger vents,thx

    Incandecents are gone but boy does it get hot in attic having vents put there as well
  • mattmia2mattmia2 Member Posts: 1,740
    edited September 8
    i don't understand how you would replace the k&t without entering the dwelling a lot.

    Is that an old pipe for gas lighting?
  • bleederbleeder Member Posts: 28
    edited September 8
    the electrician is a separate contractor who enters the house, the home works company / national grid is the company not wanting to enter the house thru the hatch or stairs.
    and yes very observant old gas lite

    More photos:







  • bleederbleeder Member Posts: 28
    edited September 9
    Im trying to show the pipes in these photos like in a recent one it was discovered to lower header
    also disregard the photo of the burnham gas boiler next to the peerless that is for the 1st floor unit
  • bleederbleeder Member Posts: 28
    edited September 9
    .
  • SteamheadSteamhead Member Posts: 13,949
    bleeder said:

    my oil co dosent want to install burnham MS they say its a terrible boiler they are always taking them out, they want to install a williamson boiler I said no, burnham or Mclein

    They must prefer less-efficient boilers, for obvious reasons :s
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/all-steamed-up-inc
    mattmia2ethicalpaul
  • ethicalpaulethicalpaul Member Posts: 1,730
    Williamson is Weil-Mclain but I would never let an oil company tell me what to install.
    1 pipe Peerless 63-03L in Cedar Grove, NJ, coal > oil > NG
  • bleederbleeder Member Posts: 28
    i hear ya there I will not be letting them do the work, there sizing is by what was there and nothing else. I found a good steam man through the wall that I have actually known for years. I meeting him at the property tomorrow
    mattmia2ethicalpaul
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