31 year old replacement
NJ Master HVACR Lic# 4630
Specializing in Steam Heating, Serving the residents of New Jersey
https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/dl-mechanical-llc
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I cannot force people to spend money, I can only suggest how to spend it wisely.......
Comments
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Looks good. What is the map gas touch for? Soft solder for the line set?
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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No that system is in the laundry room so I moved a few pipes at the same time for him. Refrigeration systems get brazed.EdTheHeaterMan said:Looks good. What is the map gas touch for? Soft solder for the line set?
DL Mechanical LLC Heating, Cooling and Plumbing 732-266-5386
NJ Master HVACR Lic# 4630
Specializing in Steam Heating, Serving the residents of New Jersey
https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/dl-mechanical-llc
https://m.facebook.com/DL-Mechanical-LLC-315309995326627/?ref=content_filter
I cannot force people to spend money, I can only suggest how to spend it wisely.......1 -
How much pipe did you bury0
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The old pipe was buried about 12” the new piping is about 4” down.unclejohn said:How much pipe did you bury
DL Mechanical LLC Heating, Cooling and Plumbing 732-266-5386
NJ Master HVACR Lic# 4630
Specializing in Steam Heating, Serving the residents of New Jersey
https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/dl-mechanical-llc
https://m.facebook.com/DL-Mechanical-LLC-315309995326627/?ref=content_filter
I cannot force people to spend money, I can only suggest how to spend it wisely.......0 -
Condensate line doesn't need to be trapped?0
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Since it was kind of mentioned, but kind of not.
What's the downside to Staybrite 8 vs Silphos? My guess is the flux but I really don't know.
Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment0 -
If you call Harris and ask them if you can use staybrite 8 they won’t tell it’s recommended however they will tell you stay brite produces a stronger joint then brazing because your not annealing the copper so much. From what I understand soft soldering is not recommended by certain towns due to the lower melting point. I’m guessing their thoughts are in a fire situation where it could get over 1000 degrees their worries is the lines could melt and separate causing a blowoff.ChrisJ said:Since it was kind of mentioned, but kind of not.
What's the downside to Staybrite 8 vs Silphos? My guess is the flux but I really don't know.
DL Mechanical LLC Heating, Cooling and Plumbing 732-266-5386
NJ Master HVACR Lic# 4630
Specializing in Steam Heating, Serving the residents of New Jersey
https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/dl-mechanical-llc
https://m.facebook.com/DL-Mechanical-LLC-315309995326627/?ref=content_filter
I cannot force people to spend money, I can only suggest how to spend it wisely.......1 -
It seems to me that copper is pretty thoroughly annealed at soft soldering temps but I'm not a metallurgist.0
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I think it depends on how long it's at the temperature etc.mattmia2 said:It seems to me that copper is pretty thoroughly annealed at soft soldering temps but I'm not a metallurgist.
That said..........why is annealing a bad thing for copper tubing? Most linesets are soft copper already.
Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment0 -
What @Dave0176 explained is correct. Soft solder is a stronger joint but melts at low temp. Some places and codes insist on brazing
I have never been able to get a straight answer on this. I have worked with some of the Trane technicians and they tell me Stay Brite is not a problem
I had a new Trane unit with a 1 3/8 suction line. We brazed everything except the last joint at the unit, jammed against a panel with wiring on the other side there was no way to braze this successfully even soft solder was difficult. They told me soft solder was ok. It was either that or dump the factory charge and cut the suction line inside the unit make the field connection and then add a coupling where we cut the suction. Didn't want to make a mess out of a brand new unit either0 -
mattmia2 said:
It seems to me that copper is pretty thoroughly annealed at soft soldering temps but I'm not a metallurgist.
Just like in welding the welded portion of the joint is the strongest, it’s the leading portions that get weakened from the heat. I’ve never seen a brazed joint break or blow, however I have seen the joint break just before the brazed joint.ChrisJ said:
I think it depends on how long it's at the temperature etc.mattmia2 said:It seems to me that copper is pretty thoroughly annealed at soft soldering temps but I'm not a metallurgist.
That said..........why is annealing a bad thing for copper tubing? Most linesets are soft copper already.DL Mechanical LLC Heating, Cooling and Plumbing 732-266-5386
NJ Master HVACR Lic# 4630
Specializing in Steam Heating, Serving the residents of New Jersey
https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/dl-mechanical-llc
https://m.facebook.com/DL-Mechanical-LLC-315309995326627/?ref=content_filter
I cannot force people to spend money, I can only suggest how to spend it wisely.......0 -
I've only seen one solder joint fail on a refrigeration system. It was on the liquid line connection to a compressor that was replaced on a rooftop unit. Condenser coil was plugged, system was running very hot and it appeared as if the connection got hot enough to cause the joint to fail.
I asked the tech who had replaced the compressor a few years prior if he used Stay Brite and he claimed he always does, but who knows for sure. The joint could have failed for other reasons. I like Stay Brite, but I would never use it on a compressor.0 -
> @SuperTech said:
> I've only seen one solder joint fail on a refrigeration system. It was on the liquid line connection to a compressor that was replaced on a rooftop unit. Condenser coil was plugged, system was running very hot and it appeared as if the connection got hot enough to cause the joint to fail.
> I asked the tech who had replaced the compressor a few years prior if he used Stay Brite and he claimed he always does, but who knows for sure. The joint could have failed for other reasons. I like Stay Brite, but I would never use it on a compressor.
If your discharge line gets hot enough to soften solder I think there are much much bigger issues at hand than the joint failing.
You're already at 700 psi by 160 degrees, no idea what pressure 400F would be.Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment0 -
For what its worth it was an R22 system. Perhaps it was poor soldering/cleaning that caused the joint to fail more than heat or pressure. I just remember it leaked right at the joint suddenly, the compressor was changed several years prior and never leaked.0
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Maybe there is something to the whole vibration thing.SuperTech said:For what its worth it was an R22 system. Perhaps it was poor soldering/cleaning that caused the joint to fail more than heat or pressure. I just remember it leaked right at the joint suddenly, the compressor was changed several years prior and never leaked.
My concern was flux.
So far......every HVAC joint I've done has been with Staysilv 15 with N2 flowing. I like how there's no flux to deal with as well as the fact it can be used to fill voids and holes.
But the Stay Brite has maybe me wonder a few times.
Sorry for getting things sidetracked. @Dave0176 Beautiful work as always.Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment0 -
Vibration would be my concern. Tin/lead solder joints have a tendency to fatigue and shear apart at the solder if it gets enough repeated force. This especially happens in electronics with connectors that don't have additional mechanical support.0
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The copper will rupture long before getting to that temperature!Dave0176 said:
If you call Harris and ask them if you can use staybrite 8 they won’t tell it’s recommended however they will tell you stay brite produces a stronger joint then brazing because your not annealing the copper so much. From what I understand soft soldering is not recommended by certain towns due to the lower melting point. I’m guessing their thoughts are in a fire situation where it could get over 1000 degrees their worries is the lines could melt and separate causing a blowoff.ChrisJ said:Since it was kind of mentioned, but kind of not.
What's the downside to Staybrite 8 vs Silphos? My guess is the flux but I really don't know.0 -
I agree with @SuperTech I wouldn't soft solder a discharge line.
The only time you work on a discharge line is a compressor replacement (usually) Liquid and suction on a split.
My old boss had a 1 5/8" discharge valve blow off a compressor and it just missed his head and it was stay brite
We can't control jobs that are overcharged, pumping oil, dirty condenser, bad condenser fan motor etc that can send discharge temps high enough to potentionally cause issues with soft solder0 -
Looks like everybody agrees that the Job looks great, but...
@Dave0176: Let me just say that I'm sorry I asked about the Mapp Gas. The job looks Great ... no buts about it!Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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> @EdTheHeaterMan said:
> Looks like everybody agrees that the Job looks great, but...
>
> @Dave0176: Let me just say that I'm sorry I asked about the Mapp Gas. The job looks Great ... no buts about it!
I'm almost positive you can braze with Mapp or LPG with the proper torch.
Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment1 -
Lol, this thread is set to go off topic a second time. I might have to try brazing with Mapp next time I'm bored.0
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> @SuperTech said:
> Lol, this thread is set to go off topic a second time. I might have to try brazing with Mapp next time I'm bored.
Oxy Mapp and oxy propane are more than hot enough. I promise.
Also Turbotorch makes lpg and Mapp torches.
https://www.zoro.com/turbotorch-air-propanemapp-kit-0386-1397/i/G2896381/Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment1 -
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I braze with the Mapp gas torch it’s a turbo type tip it’ll work on the 3/8 3/4” line sets, 7/8” starts pushing it. Usually I got my MC tank with No 14 turbo tip for the big stuff. The B tank almost never comes outta the truck anymore.ChrisJ said:> @EdTheHeaterMan said:
> Looks like everybody agrees that the Job looks great, but...
>
> @Dave0176: Let me just say that I'm sorry I asked about the Mapp Gas. The job looks Great ... no buts about it!
I'm almost positive you can braze with Mapp or LPG with the proper torch.DL Mechanical LLC Heating, Cooling and Plumbing 732-266-5386
NJ Master HVACR Lic# 4630
Specializing in Steam Heating, Serving the residents of New Jersey
https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/dl-mechanical-llc
https://m.facebook.com/DL-Mechanical-LLC-315309995326627/?ref=content_filter
I cannot force people to spend money, I can only suggest how to spend it wisely.......2 -
I agree with @Dave0176
You can braze with Air/Mapp or Air/acytelene but only in the smaller sizes. Turbo torch may say there big tips may braze large sizes but good luck with that....it's not practical takes a long time and burns too much fuel. Valves and speciality items shouldnt be over heated
Like Dave said 7/8-1 1/8 is about it and it depends on where you are outside in the cold with the wind blowing or on a roof top at 100 degrees ambient it make a big difference
Oxy acytelene and map or propane acytelene are the way to go 1 1/8 and larger for best results2 -
One place I worked at we did a fair amount of cutting with oxy/acytelene but switched to Mapp & oxy because at the time it was (and maybe still is) much cheaper. What we found was Mapp cut fine on new steel but didn't seem to cut as well on dirty, painted or rusty stuff so we switched back to acytelene0
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