mini-split brands that come with pre-insulated lines?

weil_fail

Does anyone know which mini-splits come with the pre-insulated lines? I really like working with those lines, but when you order a mini-split set, it comes with lines, often not those nice pre-insulated ones. rather than buy lines twice, I'd like to find makes/models that have them by default.

mattmia2

can't you buy the equipment and lineset separately?

weil_fail

yes, I could buy them separately. I'm just curious which ones bundle those lines by default. separate might be the way to go.

ratio

I'm unaware of a commercially sold brand that comes packaged with a lineset, but I suppose the internet brands may do that. We typically order one at the same time we order the equipment, of an appropriate length (& size) for the installation. Mitsubishi has a duplexed lineset, the insulation is like a figure-eight. It's not any easier IMHO to run, and it's more difficult to make the terminations look good. Roll copper and sticks of Armaflex™ are a possibility too, occasionally ACR with fittings for long exposed runs. Don't forget to flow N₂ if you're soldering, and switch to soft copper to make your flares.

pecmsg

weil_fail said:

yes, I could buy them separately. I'm just curious which ones bundle those lines by default. separate might be the way to go.

So what do you plan on doing with the extra length?

Hope your not planning on line purchasing and self install!

GW

All mini line sets come pre insulated. I wonder if we are misunderstanding something. I’ve never heard of a ductless system that “comes with a line set”. Maybe an online retailer does? I buy lines sets in bulk, the last purchase was over 3000 feet. I stopped buying the white stuff, we’ve had too many leaks with the white. I buy black stuff now

ratio

@GW, all white linesets, or just one/few brands? I've seen several styles around here, one that's got a shiny white skin on the outside, one that's got a coarse textured skin (knurled comes to mind), & one that's white outside & grey inside.

GW

The white on white sets. We did a tiny bit of White and gray but no issues at this time. When I had one job leak just 12 months after we installed it, that was it! Black sets cost more, but they must weight a good 30% more. I am convinced the copper is a heavier wall

EBEBRATT-Ed

@ratio
why switch to soft copper to flare? Just heat the hard stuff and anneal it.

ratio

@GW, does the black stuff you use have a thicker skin or harder outer layer? I haven't seen any black like that at out distributors. It makes some of the pulls a lot easier.

@EBERATT-Ed, I do sometimes, but usually I'm dropping down inside a wall, soft just makes that easier.

GW

@ratio yes it’s tough- just a tad less tough than the white, but it’s very strong. Plus it compresses- which is nice when flaring. With the white we need to slit it then zip tie it back together

ratio

What brand is it? Sounds like something I want to try out.

GW

There’s no name on these line sets. I will try to investigate.

GW

More stuff going on today

ratio

Thanks. Those look like they'd pull a lot better than straight Armaflex.

pecmsg

Those line sets had Major leaking issues several years ago.

Cost a lot of contractors a huge amount. I was lucky we didn’t use them but we’ve scrapped a lot.

mattmia2

Were they thinner copper or did they just have issues with how they were drawn? It seems like there is no one other than the manufacturer that is saving by making the copper thinner.

pecmsg

> @mattmia2 said:
> Were they thinner copper or did they just have issues with how they were drawn? It seems like there is no one other than the manufacturer that is saving by making the copper thinner.
We feel

It was a chemical reaction between the insulation and moisture attacking the copper. Only the suction line developed leaks.

ratio

pecmsg said:

It was a chemical reaction between the insulation and moisture attacking the copper. Only the suction line developed leaks.

I'd like to know more about this, if you've any references.

GW

That’s funny, all of our leaks were on the quarter-inch liquid

mattmia2

i have 2 dehumidifiers with leaks in the 1/4" copper that makes up the evaporator

GW

@ratio There’s already a thread on this whole topic. Just search line sets.

pecmsg

GW said:

@ratio There’s already a thread on this whole topic. Just search line sets.

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1605236#Comment_1605236

ratio

Ah, I remember reading that thread.

I guess it's true what they say about memory…

pecmsg

And here Page 4 has pics
https://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?2203160-Lineset-Leaks/page4