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Second Time around replacing a steam system on my 2nd FL unit

kesean5kesean5 Member Posts: 6
edited February 27 in Strictly Steam

Comments

  • FredFred Member Posts: 8,370
    It's very difficult to put all the pictures into perspective but I can see enough to tell it is not piped correctly. There doesn't appear to be a header at all, pipe sizes don't look right. Did you look at the installation manual before you started?
  • STEAM DOCTORSTEAM DOCTOR Member Posts: 1,032
    Seems to be a header in on left side of the boiler. Side outlet boiler. Seems to be bullhead T at end of header.
  • SteamheadSteamhead Member Posts: 13,663
    It is not piped correctly. That boiler requires you to use both 2" tappings to provide two 2" risers to the header. They recently changed the header size requirement to 2" from 2-1/2", but if I were piping it I'd still use a 2-1/2" header.

    With the current piping, you'll get problems like wet steam, which seriously reduces efficiency and can also cause water-level issues. See chapter 4 of Lost Art, and most importantly, the I&O manual.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/all-steamed-up-inc
  • ethicalpaulethicalpaul Member Posts: 1,510
    All of the above plus the header is too low. I think gallons of water are going to get shoveled into the main, like I used to have, seen here: https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/169320/see-wet-steam-in-the-wild

    What is the EDR of this boiler? Mine in the video above is a very small boiler and it still was throwing water up its single 2" side-supply
    1 pipe Utica 112 in Cedar Grove, NJ, 1913 coal > oil > NG
  • clammyclammy Member Posts: 2,450
    All I can say is I hope you payed very little for the job and unless u want issue for years to come find some one who can follow the manufactures piping diagrams and of course up size the main header to min 2 1/2 . Other wise be prepared for poor performance and operations and as Paul has stated that boiler riser is not 24 inch above water line . I would get the contractor back and demand it be piped properly according to the boilers installation and operation instructions .personally looking st the piping it was done by one who can spin a wrench and that’s about it ,he has zero experience installing steam boiler s ,why you ask because any one who does steam boilers knows how to pipe theem correctly ,this just shows that this person or company has never piped a steam boiler or installs every one incorrectly . It’s your choice but I can say I hope you did not pay much to have this done ,the job does not look like a professional installed no emergency gas switch for state res aside from bad piping not very professional looking install . Peace and good luck clammy ps don’t feel bad I see many newly installed system done by those who are clueless aside from signing and cashing the check
    R.A. Calmbacher L.L.C. HVAC
    NJ Master HVAC Lic.
    Mahwah, NJ
    Specializing in steam and hydronic heating
    ethicalpaul
  • ethicalpaulethicalpaul Member Posts: 1,510
    edited February 27
    I went back and looked at your earlier situation, and I'm sorry to say it was actually better before (see https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/179094/need-help-with-replacement-boiler ). It had a real header at what looked like a good height, with the correct order of connections (first steam supply, then mains, then to the equalizer down to the return.

    I see now it's a small Dunkirk design boiler like mine (about 112k BTU, 200 EDR), also piped (before and now) at one side supply only.

    Green mountain (who relabels this boiler from some other manufacture I think-- Dunkirk or utica maybe), has a pretty good manual ( https://www.ecrdocuments.com/secure/upload/document/4425.pdf )

    They do allow just a single supply tapping on their small boilers (3 & 4 section, I think yours is a 3 section), but they do mandate 2-1/2" steam supply and header then reduced to 1-1/2" for the equalizer.

    They also want at least 15" from the steam supply to the first steam main off the header (this is to let the steam separate from the water that no doubt is thrown up by the single steam supply LOL)


    1 pipe Utica 112 in Cedar Grove, NJ, 1913 coal > oil > NG
  • dabrakemandabrakeman Member Posts: 131
    Seems like even if you had never installed a steam boiler before following the installation manual would make sense. Just sayin...
  • EBEBRATT-EdEBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 6,712
    @dabrakeman

    This goes on all the time around here. Every week some poor soul comes here too late to find out about his poor boiler install.

    They are seldom right. The only ones that are right (usually) are the ones done by contractors and some homeowners on this forum.

    The sad part is anyone that can put pipe together properly could install one.......most choose not to read the install manual. Sadder still if it wouldn't have cost any more to do it right
  • FredFred Member Posts: 8,370
    When I read the original post, my take was this poster was doing this install himself????
  • kesean5kesean5 Member Posts: 6
    edited February 28
    The boiler is a Utica boiler and based on manufacture spec piping for the boiler it what they recommend
  • SteamheadSteamhead Member Posts: 13,663
    The Utica PEG boiler manual is here. Piping diagram is on page 10:

    https://uticaboilers.com/sites/default/files/PEG Installation and Operation Manual.pdf
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/all-steamed-up-inc
    Hap_Hazzardkesean5SuperTech
  • KC_JonesKC_Jones Member Posts: 4,383
    kesean5 said:

    The boiler is a Utica boiler and based on manufacture spec piping for the boiler it what they recommend

    It is not.

    There is a tee at the end of the header, that is to be a 90 elbow, with the main coming off a tee in the run of the header. Are you sure the header is 24" above the water line? It looks low, but can't always tell by pictures. If you want to measure from floor, the bottom of the header should be 48" above the floor, assuming boiler is sitting directly on the floor.
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
    https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10202744301871904.1073741828.1330391881&type=1&l=c34ad6ee78
    ethicalpaulkesean5
  • EBEBRATT-EdEBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 6,712
    Sad because the guy that piped it the piping looks god as in nice and straight etc.

    But not pipes right
    ethicalpaul
  • pecmsgpecmsg Member Posts: 1,223
    Do I see 3 boilers, 2 steam 1 hydronic?
  • kesean5kesean5 Member Posts: 6
    > @pecmsg said:
    > Do I see 3 boilers, 2 steam 1 hydronic?

    Yess
  • pecmsgpecmsg Member Posts: 1,223
    kesean5 said:

    > @pecmsg said:

    > Do I see 3 boilers, 2 steam 1 hydronic?



    Yess

    OK

    That's a lot of heat...….WHY?
  • ethicalpaulethicalpaul Member Posts: 1,510
    Probably so that each family pays for its own heat (except the upper floors get free heat from the lower ones of course LOL)
    1 pipe Utica 112 in Cedar Grove, NJ, 1913 coal > oil > NG
  • kesean5kesean5 Member Posts: 6
    It’s a three family home rental property
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