Smith Boilers

EBEBRATT-Ed

I was on the Mestek web site and couldn't find Smith boilers. I know Peerless was making the same boiler is Smith completely gone?

STEVEusaPA

Looks like it re-directs you:
http://www.smithboiler.com/
Says for more info on Smith Boilers...
http://mestek.com/hvac-metal-forming-articles.asp?type=1&lang=en&id=60#.Xkla4TJKiHs
What are you looking for in particular?

EBEBRATT-Ed

@STEVEusaPA

Well Smith is owned by Mestek that owns a bunch of other companies. I used to go to the Mestek web site and scroll through to find Smith.

When I went on this morning (haden't been on it in a while)
I hit "companies owned" and Smith isn't listed.

So being that Peerless is now making the Smith #19 & #28 & maybe others under their own label (they have been using the same foundry for quite a while now) I thought Smiht may have closed up, guess not.

B_Sloane

19's and 28's have been very good for me !
used to spend all summer replacing sections and gaskets

Steamhead

B_Sloane said:

19's and 28's have been very good for me !
used to spend all summer replacing sections and gaskets

Welded headers?

EBEBRATT-Ed

28s came out in 1977 and I don't recall anyone having problems with them back then, they seamed bullet proof all through the 80s and 90s but something has changed along the way. Now they seem to fail like all the others.

Now they use a perforated dip tube on the water boilers to distribute return water among the sections instead of dumping it in the back.

I have only done a few of the 19s

B_Sloane

Steamhead said:

B_Sloane said:

19's and 28's have been very good for me !
used to spend all summer replacing sections and gaskets

Welded headers?

in many cases, yes..
but not the cause of failure
most were casting defects in intermediate sections

B_Sloane

I once bought 16 #28 Sections for the same boiler room
multiple 17 Section Model 28's

The Steam Whisperer

Funny thing is Smith permits welded headers on the 28, while Peerless, with the same casting for the TCII does not permit welded headers. It's probably because Smith is under the ECR unbrella... lower standards from my experience.

EBEBRATT-Ed

@The Steam Whisperer

Problem with welded headers is when they come out of the boiler with a 90 and go into the header close coupled.

If you come out of the boiler and go horizontal for some distance it's not as bad, even 5" will give a little

Bad as it is most will not struggle with the 5" fittings you need on a 28.

I'll bet 99% of the smith, weil and burnhams are piped with welded headers. The stuff made now will rot before they crack at the top

ScottSecor

We see welded headers often with commercial cast iron sectional and almost always with scotch marine type boilers. I have never personally witnesses a boiler failure related to welded headers. Not saying it doesn't happen, but the premature commercial steam boiler failures we see are almost always related to poor water condition or lwco failure.

retiredguy

The company I worked for corrected cracked sections on the H.B.Smith series 28 boiler sections, caused by cold water shock by installing a "run around" pump piped from the discharge to the return tapping. This solved almost all the cracked sections on a hot water heating job. When using the boilers for steam we had very few section replacements. In the 1960's through the early 2000's most of the boilers we sold and supplied for commercial buildings (schools and buildings) were the 3500's, 4500's, and the 6500's. fire box refractory lined design. These boilers had almost a zero failure rate unless the heating engineer did a very poor job in the heating system design. Then they brought out the "wet base" 28 series boilers. They were supposed to be more efficient, and maybe they were but they really kept us busy replacing sections, until the run around pumps were installed.

EBEBRATT-Ed

@retiredguy

Your right. When I started (73) almost every job in my area was a Smith boiler. Of course the fact they used to be made 10 miles from here was a factor they had this area tide up solid.

3500, 4500, 6500s were good boilers if you could keep the insulating cement between the sections. With the built in headers they were good steamers for the most part but we always thought of them as high maintenance boilers. But you cold replace a section without taking the whole thing apart or plug off a section to keep it running.

But Weil McLain had the 86/88 so Smith had to come out with something to compete.

Blend pumps do help I know Burnham requires under some conditions

The Steam Whisperer

Yes, I am aware of the problem that welded headers cause, that's why we use drop headers with threaded fittings. 5 inch threaded isn't that bad to work with. 6 inch is a big step it seems. It mainly comes down to upfront cost. A 5 inch welded fitting is about 1/5 the cost of a threaded fitting, so welded is what gets used. I have found the WM LGB's seem to be the most susceptible to the levering of welded headers... The typical life we see is about 14 years. In contrast, a single riser LGB will often will last 24 years. We see leaking sections gaskets regularly on these. The Peerless 211A seem to hold up pretty well as do the WM88 when installed all welded. However, I bet both would last a lot longer with threaded fittings.

EBEBRATT-Ed

@The Steam Whisperer

I was running 2" copper on a job years ago and was worried about expansion (hot water system) was about 250' long. So I decided to pipe in an expansion loops every 50 feet. I think in 250' the expansion was around 2"

So I made some expansion loops out of 2" copper with 4 elbows. Actually, Carrier had a piping book that describes how to size them. It's the only book I have seen that describes it specifically.

After I assembled these they were about 3' and 3' over I put one on the floor and put some pressure on it. It would move 1/2" easily with minor hand pressure

Even 5" if you give it some room will flex a little.

I don't like the way drop headers look but in this instance they do a lot for stress relief on a boiler even if they are welded

ethicalpaul

> I don't like the way drop headers look

Heresy!! 😂